Exhaust Chirp from Right Side Ansa Muffler

There were a number of headers and three different ANSA mufflers all differing inside the weldments. The original ANSA factory was sold a decade ago so what they sell today will be different than "stock" 50 years ago. Diagnosing a not-well-described sound over the web is about the least possible fix.

But sounds from a muffler are not serious; you should find a person familiar with Panteras -maybe on this List- and let him take a look to be sure it's not from another area. It may simply be the pipe touching something somewhere, which is a simple adjustment. Welcome and good luck.

Agree more details are needed. It is a February 1972 build and has the stock ansa webbed headers, but I do not know the vintage of the ansa muffler assembly. It is a high pitched chirp. Almost sounds like a belt chirp but seems to be  coming from the muffler internals as I can turn the noise on and off by blocking the same outlet on the muffler. I’ll see the car again on Monday so I’ll investigate further.

The muffler age can not be confirmed but based on the internet history of the car that I have found they are at least 15-20 years old with only around 400 miles of use.

I have the GTS aftermarket headers with GTS mufflers. I have a chirp sound that sounds very similar to yours in my LH Muffler. 🐣🐣🐣

I accept it as a quirk, one of many, that a car will gather during a long lifetime.

I do think it is something that has broken a weld and likes to rattle or resonate at just the perfect pitch on occasion. Whether it is worth opening the muffler top and effecting a repair would depend on whether it annoys you that much.

Larry

What you describe seems like an exhaust leak somewhere. The stock webbed headers regularly crack, get welded and crack in a different spot requiring another weld, until most owners get tired of chasing the problem and replace them with a better built set. This can also gain horsepower at the expense of a bit more external noise, not in the cabin. So the car needs to have a really thorough exhaust leak-check done. I agree, an exhaust whistle can be annoying, and if thats what it is, it will only get worse and maybe change tone.

Normally I would suggest you simply borrow a stock muffler from a Pantera owner that has upgraded his car and has stockers laying behind the garage. A minute or two of running would tell you if its something in the completely welded muffler that's caught or broken free. To fix, the muffler is cut open and the whistle-producer is eliminated. Or its something to do with the header or connecting pipe. You might get lucky and it's only a loose exhaust clamp. Of course, all this is based on whether you actually complete your purchase.

POCA has around 900 members and some have more than one car. Members regularly swap parts around for trouble-shooting. But you're in the N. Detroit area, well outside recognized hotbeds of Pantera activities (FL and So-Cal), and shipping bulky parts around the country on a hunch is not cheap. Shops that specialize are scarce in your area. There's one in NW Ohio (Amerisport) not terribly far away that could diagnose and probably fix it in a few minutes, run by Kirk Evans. He's no longer a POCA member but he does post to this forum occasionally.

Appreciate the helpful thoughts!

I do have a local Pantera buddy (10 minutes away) that happens to have an older/unused set of ANSA mufflers so a swap would be the first thing I try assuming I go ahead with the purchase.

How come the motor city isn't a hotbed for Panteras??!! That is not right! With all of the automotive engineers/car nuts around here (including myself - retired Ford engineer, hot rodder) we need to change that.

Rob, I think a large amount of the problem in Detroit with the Pantera was the Unions with their NIH (Not Invented Here) attitude. A good number of Ford executives and engineers also felt they'd been bypassed since Ford essentially BOUGHT the Pantera project from Italy as-is/where-is, so even the numerous corrective measures Ford introduced were mostly done in Italy by local non-Union workers.

The short-sighted and traditionalists at Ford were reportedly not sad when the project was dropped after mid-'73. Note too that 'cheap' $10,000 price translates to near $70,000 in 2021 dollars. Panteras faced the same market 50 yrs ago as $70,000 Mustangs & Corvettes do today. If you look at national sales records, most Panteras were sold in CA and the East Coast where the money was. Just my  speculation- I lived 150 miles away in south-central MI at the time, with a wife & four kids so not quite my market, either.

I have a chirp also. It comes from both sides. It is a GTS exhaust with modified (straight through) mufflers.

I checked the engine and the noise definitely comes from the exhaust.

The prime suspect in my opinion is the gasket between header and muffler tube. The chirping began after we tried to align the exhaust.  After all the pushing and pulling the gasket probably interferes with the exhaust flow.

If you have found the cause of the chirp please post your solution.

(Sorry for my bad english)

Appreciate the responses. Unfortunately after inspecting/driving the car this morning - I had to pass on buying it. It had a long list of parts/repairs needed and I could not justify the price based on this.

The search continues.....

As the market price for a model increases, the quality of what's available tends to  decrease. Keep trying- your car IS out there. And keep researching so you recognize it when it shows up. Unfortunately a fact of life is, the going price will edge upward at the same time. Maybe adjust your expectations, if possible? I'd really like to get my rusty '55 Porsche Speedster back at a low multiple of what I sold it for....

Thanks bosswrench - good advice. I was quite disappointed to not be coming home with a Pantera today - it would have been a deal involving them buying my Porsche 911 turbo and some cash. The dealer wanted way over what the Pantera was worth given what was needed. There wasn't a system on the car that did not require repairs. 

Another part of the equation is I am trying to come to terms on how much work I want to do on a car project. I have done a ground-up restoration and painted several cars years ago, so I have the skills - but less motivation to be laying on the ground fixing things as more gray hair comes in! Cruel irony - I'm retired so I have the time now - yet the body and brain don't agree on what is possible anymore.

I do also understand the limited number of cars for sale, especially in my general area as do not see myself traveling all over to look at a car. So I am willing to flex my standards a bit (hard to do being an engineer).

Yeah - that 55 Speedster would be nice to have right now.....

If you can restrain yourself a bit, know there will be the 39th International Pantera Rally scheduled for April 20-24, 2022 at the Ak-Chin Indian Casino in Maricopa, one of the many suburbs of Phoenix, AZ. Not only will there be more Panteras than you ever thought possible, including gorgeous show cars, there are always a few cars for sale. This is our equivalent of the annual Porsche meets but smaller & friendlier because of that.

More info on the web at <www.poca.com>. Not expensive and might be a good Spring vacation for you and a friend. No need to be a POCA member but it cuts costs. I know my old friend Bill Van Ess in Grand Rapids is coming out as well as our past Prez from Elgin, Il with his 1992 Pantera Si.  Maybe Fred Stoye from Traverse City- he's driven out a few times.  What's your e-mail?

In the meantime, I suggest you advertise your 930 so you're more flexible. Money talks and reduces complication.

Cheers-  Jack DeRyke <jderyke@aol.com> (born & raised in Kalamazoo, now retired in Minden, NV, near Lake Tahoe)

Quick check, use the palm of your hand and tap tap tap on the left side & right side of the can, not the pipes. If somethings rusted or broke loose it will appear as a tinny sound. A quick look inside as well may help. We arm ourselves with a stethoscope when doing this to magnify the sound[s].

Appreciate all of the input!

I decided to buy the Pantera (with the chirp) after negotiating a price with the dealer that I felt comfortable with. The car is 02605, which was owned by Rob Borruso back in 2014 (he is local to me - super nice guy) and I spoke to him at length about the cars history and current condition issues.

The owner after Rob has had the car since 2015, had a collection of 25+ cars, so they only drove it several hundred miles in almost 7 years. He is also local to me and has some parts/paperwork for me. It was helpful talking to the last 2 owners. The car has a number of good things going for it, so I decided it was worth it to fix the problems. It needs some love, but who/what doesn't when you are 50 years old!

I'm excited/honored to finally own a car like this. Having worked at Ford's SVT division, I was able to take several new 2006 Ford GTs home (Gulf blue livery - omg!) for the weekends and that experience has made me want a car like that ever since then! The GTs are out of my price range so the Pantera is the closest I can get.

I'll pick the car up Nov 1, get ready for a barrage of posts from me!

Rob

That's my job, Rob. Been around long enough that if I don't know the answer, I know where its kept.

CONGRATS Rob!  And welcome to the family!  You will surely fall in love with your car!  As for the exhaust chirp, that's characteristic of pretty much ALL Panteras with unmodified Ansa mufflers.  It's similar to the chirp from a VW bug muffler.

I used an 18" long drill bit to open up the baffles inside my muffler in an effort to reduce the chirping, to no effect.  I've had fantasies of cutting open my muffler cans and reconfiguring the internals as some have done (there are threads on this board in which people have done that), but have too many other projects with higher priority.  My advice, just enjoy the ride!

And post pics as soon as you pick up the car!  BTW, where are you located?  Have you joined your local Pantera Club chapter yet?  Do it now! 

Thanks Garth! It's funny that you mention the VW sound - very true. Its odd that the Pantera does it on one side, only out of one tailpipe. I plan on swapping out the bad side with another ANSA assembly to see if it goes away. Other higher priority issues - first of which is to dump the E85 carb set-up that is on it - horrible.

I'm in Novi, MI - a suburb in south east MI. I do plan on joining my local club (if there is one??).

I have no idea what chapter is closest to you, but surely someone on this forum would know, or you can get in touch with the guys at Eastern Pantera Association, as I'm sure they know who's in your area as well.

http://www.easternpantera.com/index.htm

Looks like there is a Great Lakes group that covers many states. I was hoping for a more local group but I'll check into it.

Yes- Great Lakes Pantera in the greater Chicago area. The next closest POCA Chapter is in Dallas-Ft Worth, TX or Eastern Pantera in New England. There may be smaller local, unaffiliated groups that we don't know about.

Found it! And I have to say I am very surprised that i found nothing related to that topic here.

The chirp came from the perforated inlet in the tailpipes. The space between this tube an the outer tailpipe originally was filled with damping material, which burns out over time.

And because the tube itself is only welded on one side (towards the muffler), when the stonewool (or whatever it is) is gone, it can freely move, which it does unfortunately.

The chirp is gone after removing the perforated tube.

In this link you can hear the chirp on the third Pantera in comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...channel=laurent91400

As always: sorry for my bad english

GeorgS - thanks for the follow-up. Were you able to hear the loose inlet pipe when banging on the muffler?

My chirp noise appears to be acoustic vs. a rattling internal part. I can control the sound by blocking one of the outlet pipes and, I need to verify this, but I also think I was able to control the chirp as I was adjusting the idle mixture on a new carb. As I was richening the mixture, the chirp seemed to go away???

I had the same problem whit an other car, after a lot of investigation , replace the whole exhaust system , check the webers, sparkplugs a.s.o. I found out that when I slide inn a steel pipe into the chrome tips the crispy sound was gone .

the problem also was the perfored pipe  .

Simon

No, banging against the muffler had no effect.

I made a video of testing with steel tubes inside the tailpipes ( seems like Simon did the same).

You can hear me talking in German but it doesn't matter, I state the obvious: "noise is there" and "noise is gone", watch till the end, you can see that you don't even need the tubes.

I am sorry Rob, I see you live in Michigan, that is a bit far to take a quick look.

GeorgS - thanks for the video - sounds like my problem! Do you have any pics of how you removed the perf pipe?

I'm checking flights to Munich!!

Way back when we first bought our '72 in 1980, one stock muffler 'jingled' at idle. Turned out that ANSA had added a "final baffle" inside each muffler by tack-welding a steel washer inside the muffler onto the perforated outlet pipes.  And in 8 yrs of driving, the tack-welds broke in one side, freeing the washer to fall into the muffler case to rattle around.

Cutting a little hole in the case allowed enough access to dump the thing out. Then I took a piece of steel pipe and stuck it in the still quiet muffler outlets. A sharp whack on the pipe end easily broke those washers off too and I removed all of them the same way. The noise increase from the four broken 'final baffles' was un-noticeable.

IMHO, anyone not rather well to-do that owns any Italian car and does NOT own a large selection of tools, welding equipment and a lathe, is fighting an uphill battle if he/she expects to  drive it regularly! Sure- there are shops that do this stuff every day.... at $80-$125/hr. And they have waiting lists.

Jack - amen to that! In the 6 months I've owned my Pantera I'm sure I have saved thousands by being able to DIY.  Unfortunately - no metal lathe - but I do have a wood lathe - hmmm - maybe a custom shift knob??

I have been getting some satisfaction closing out the open issues on my Excel doc - and some frustrations on a few things - but it is worth the battle!

I started DIY because I was a married College student put thru school by parents & wife, so simply couldn't afford to hire a talented shop to do what I thought was necessary. Now I own a small but complete machine & welding shop in my back yard!  Can you say "Mission Creep?"

I cut/sawed the tailpipes behind the original weld (see picture).

But don't cut them off completely, or you will have a lot of fun welding them back on in the correct angle.

I just cut as far as I had to till the perforated tube could be removed.

Then welded everything back together, grinding and sanding fun and at last painting it black again. 

And yes I have to agree, if you are not able to help yourself, it will be very difficult to have fun with these cars. The problem here is, that there are no talented mechanics that I trust enough.