Fed Up with Vendors

We could make a game of this and each try to put a vendor name to each episode.

Those are pretty typical for me, but at about 2X the normal rate. BTW, your Inglisch is gooder than most. I suspect you just need to lower your standards more.

Vendor 1- I order a small part with 3 day express and get it in 11 days
......... He did ship it express, but it took him the other 8 days to get from another vendor what he said he had "on the shelf". He never said it was HIS shelf.

Vendor 2- I order headers and tailpipes (second set) and the tailpipes don't fit
......... Ah, the old..."These are hand-made cars and nothing fits all cars the same" routine.

Vendor 3- I order 7 parts and 4 of 7 are missing or wrong.
.......... What were you thinking!!?? It is hard enough for ONE item to be processed correctly, and you ordered SEVEN at the same time??!!

Vendor 4- I email twice and phoned once for info on crate shipping dimensions. Response? Zero.
.......... Well doh... He is obviously busy trying to get the previous orders straightened out.

You think parts are a problem? Then don't ever think of leaving your car at a vendor for repairs.....

Larry (Read my avatar)

Will,

I slightly edited the title of your thread. Some of the vendors lurk here from time to time, I want them to see this thread. Your complaints are legitimate.

I appreciate you not naming names. The goal is not to impact anyone's business, the goal is to motivate them to improve.

My two cents on the issue, the vendors who I know pesonally are genuinely good people. The issue is business practices.

cowboy from hell

quote:

the vendors who I know personally are genuinely good people. The issue is business practices

True. Quite true.

But many of us only share a table and a drink with them once a year in Vegas.

The rest of the time it is business, and many are often seriously lacking in business skills.

Sort of makes it hard to be buddies in Vegas when you're treated poorly the rest of the time.

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
Does everyone have the same (bad) luck with vendors as me? In the last few weeks...
Vendor 1- I order a small part with 3 day express and get it in 11 days
Vendor 2- I order headers and tailpipes (second set) and the tailpipes don't fit
Vendor 3- I order 7 parts and 4 of 7 are missing or wrong.
Vendor 4- I email twice and phone once for info on crate shipping dimensions. Response? Zero
Maybe I'm no speak Inglish well?
Frustrated and Pissed off.
Will

For what it is worth, I have been buying Pantera parts for over 30 years now. How would you like to get nothing for your money as has been the case with me before? Some of the vendors that I had a major problem with are now long gone from the Pantera business because I was not the only one that got nothing for their money except excuses.

None of these vendors are perfect, but some are much worse than others about getting orders incorrect. When you start to purchase custom parts for these cars, not every part is going to fit perfect because these cars are not identical. I found out what the meaning of hand built was and it is not that great.

I am waiting for some parts right now, but at least I was told it was going to be a while before they had them. I will deal with that issue and if it takes a few more days than I was told, then that will be ok for now since I don't have any reason to drive the car now. We are a captive customer base and that is the way it will always be.

In the vendors defense through out the years I have had only one issue. Perhaps I am an exception, but for the most part my orders were timely and priced accordingly.

Yes Will,
This seems to be a problem,
1) I tried a while back to get sway bars that were chromed, paid a premium because they were for a Pantera and received the bars with poor welding of the washer stops and some of the crapiest chrome I'd ever seen, sent them back & ate the cost of shipping,not to mention It took 2 mos to get my money back.
2)Another vendor, I bought an air cleaner, and some breathers , I had to finish machining the Air cleaner. Found some of the parts later and there was a 500% markup!
3)A third vendor I purchased from sent me a Master Clutch, the resevior cracked due to poor workmanship, his answer was use the old parts. WOW!!!!
4)A fourth sent me a chinese made throw out bearing @ twice the cost of a good US made bearing and was peturbed I was questioning him about this, also I received sway bar that were suppose to be chrome, another very poor chrome job.
I personally believe they are gouging the owners & I will go to great extents of finding ,refurbishing,building and learning to do what I can to keep my Pantera reasonable.
I have personally posted some of my repairs and finding's to help others curtail the High Cost of parts . Any additional info posted on others experiences would perpetuate the education on these cars so as not to be taken advantage of.

My 2 cents, Mark

this post has been moderated. George

My experience with vendors have been pretty good with the exception of shipping. I've been charged some outrageous shipping costs, u 4X + what it would cost me to ship. I guess that they make money off the shipping. If I could find a vendor who would ship at reasonable rates (USPS flat rate, etc) I would be ordering everything from them and also more stuff that I put off ordering. I find that all that I have purchased from gouge me on shipping. I have heard similar stories from others.

Sorry to agree but yes I have had ver slow responses from USA Pantera vendors. But I must admit I also get very slow responses from Majority of USA vendors.
Perhaps we aussies have high expectaions and are spoilt 'down under' !
However I must say Summit racing have always been awesome ! even when they sent the wrong items they have been great and speedy. I call them today and less then 7 days it is on my doorstep. I was going to buy my Pantera from a Pantera vendor, but it was all soo slow.
I must say Hall Pantera, once you call them ( Tara ) they were good. and their pricing was acceptable.
I tried vendores on the west coast, the east coast, and central USA and all were not really interested.
sorry to ramble on, just my 2 cents worth !

The problems get amplified if you live out of the US. You wait forever (not the vendors fault)to get the wrong or missing parts. We have to pay inflated shipping AND brokerage fees to only pay to return them.
I fully agree that they are great people. Their business practices lack at times, though.
I've had a real bad string of luck lately with every order from almost all the vendors.
I've had real good luck with some of the vendors (Tara and Becky), but they don't have enough mechanical experience to recommend certain products.
Simple things like the vendors not calling/emailing back with the total billing amount when requested (so I can know what to see on my Visa) bothers me. Am I being too picky?
Will

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. Instead of a call-back with final pricing, I would ask you for an email address, this would allow me to time shift, to contact you late at night.

The issue is people are trying to run their businesses with too few people, therefore they take on too many responsibilities themselves, and don't have time to do them all.

This is why the damn magazine hasn't been produced, I'm guilty of the same thing. I'm in the process of training somebody to take that job over. I can't speak for every vendor, but for the club its a money issue. We don't make enough to hire a full time person to produce the magazine. I had to wait until the right person in the right situation presented themselves.

Just a modern fairy tale ...

MODERATED, off topic.

I've never responded rudely in a private message to anyone as was suggested. Since membership dues are billed with the magazine, nobody has been billed since the last magazine was delivered. The club is still serving the hobby day by day, existing out of my pocket.

Roland, you would go on a forum provided to you for free, and publicly scoff the person who provides that forum to you, a person who has shown great patience to you time after time in private? This says something about your lack of manners.

Peculiar, in Roland's last private warning, which occured a while back, he was informed that if his deriding remarks about other members happened again he would be banned. I had no idea at the time the remarks would be made towards me.

I feel I would be a fool to allow myself to be derided on my own forums. If nothing else, I would be encouraging more of the same type of comments in the future.

with a heavy heart, Roland's membership on the forums has been terminated - George

It's good to see you're still alive and kicking, Roland!

Although I like George (and I don't see that changing), Rolands words have a ring of truth to them.

I miss the magazine, and lament it's demise. I will gladly renew when it reappears.

Michael

I would like to address both points:

1. I haven't joined because I understand there is no magazine.

2. I am done with Pantera vendors as much as possible. The moderator can change this post as they see fit as I am naming names.

I purchased a clutch master cylinder from a vendor not too long ago. My mechanic installed it and found it was leaking internally and defective. I called the vendor and repeated the comments from my mechanic, and then put my mechanic on the phone when I didn't understand the vendor's response. Turns out their response was to rebuild the new clutch master cylinder they had just sent. My mechanic said that isn't his job and asked if the vendor was going to pay the labor. Obviously the answer was no.

I was in a hurry, so my mechanic got a hold of another master cylinder, but tore apart the one from the vendor to see what was going on. It had bad seals and surface rust on the inside rod (I don't know all the correct terms). My mechanic said they basically sold me a used part.

I got busy and never sent the part back to the vendor so they could give me their side of the story, but I don't care. I won't purchase from them again.

I have compared notes with two other Pantera owners with similar problems. One of which was only solved with threat of bodily harm - which I don't condone. I won't repeat these stories from my friends, because that would just be hear-say.

R.

Robert - I did moderate the names. Again, our goal is not to impact somebody's business, but to motivate them to improve. It would seem from everyone's stories some vendors are impacting their businesses badly enough on their own. - George

quote:

Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
The problems get amplified if you live out of the US. You wait forever (not the vendors fault)to get the wrong or missing parts. We have to pay inflated shipping AND brokerage fees to only pay to return them.
I fully agree that they are great people. Their business practices lack at times, though.
I've had a real bad string of luck lately with every order from almost all the vendors.
I've had real good luck with some of the vendors (Tara and Becky), but they don't have enough mechanical experience to recommend certain products.
Simple things like the vendors not calling/emailing back with the total billing amount when requested (so I can know what to see on my Visa) bothers me. Am I being too picky?
Will

After I acted like it was fine to have to wait for a left side axle shaft, the wait seems like it is going to be much longer than I expected or was lead to believe it would be. I am only purchasing an OEM part, so I don't understand the delay, since I suspect it is coming from another vendor and then being shipped to me. I guess I will see how this plays out before I get too upset about it, but I can understand people not liking getting used parts or short orders. We are paying very good money for these parts and you should at least get your money's worth.

Vendors that take a long time to return your call is a problem also that I can relate to. I don't know how to change that because we are all at their mercy at some time.

quote:

Originally posted by RobertVegas:

1. I haven't joined because I understand there is no magazine.

I'll take that as a challenge!

When the magazine gets back under production I'll PM you about joining.

This thread is about problems with vendors. I don't want to take it off topic by explaining what's happening with the magazine. Later tonight, when I get home, I'll post a new thread in the club news forum and update you guys what's happening behind the scenes, since I've actually got good news.

I have posted my thoughts on vender's before. I think they could do a much better job. I have posted why I feel this way so they can do a better job. My goal with vendors is that they do better, become more successful and serve the industry better.

I know Pantera's are different then MG's but I have a $10,000 MGB in which my running total has exceeded $35K. DO NOT KEEP RUNNING TOTALS!!!

The main catalog vendors have it so down pat we have it spoiled. 95% of the parts are not only available, but a point and click away set up very similar to say Jegs or Summit. These people have it figured out.

The Pantera vendors are all kind of stuck in the 1980's mom and pop. Some people say well they do it for fun don't knock them. Well that's fine but we WANT the next level and I think most are willing to open up their pockets to the first vendor who really steps forward and becomes a a vendor for the era.

Gary

I'll take credit for the dispute with ROLAND ... I;m not a grudge type of guy ..but I think he threatened because of my rude comments .. you know what life is tooo short to pout ..I love you Roland !

The vendors run there business like I run mine.. too much to do with too little employees .. but I demand service and juggle manpower like a circus clown with 5 balls in the air .. its some thing I learned working in NYC and its an ART ..it can be done but efficency and drive VS. time and profits.

Be patient the vendors and the magazine will figure it out ... the vendors are battling with importing parts at higher prices, manufacturing parts in the US with shrinking labor forces due to cut backs and ( as George says ) finding the right employee for the right sitaution to produce a magazine at a reasonable cost on a shrinking budget .... you think I;m babbling ... I run an HVAC business and deal with economic issues all day long ... HVAC equipment they say is made in TEXAS ( its MEXICO ) UNION guys that want 4.00 hr raise and they are UNEMPLOYED ... and a goverment that wants to send me a check for 600.00 so my wife can PISS It away on rising food prices ... boys be patient !!
Ron

In twenty years I have purchased parts from Hall (the majority), Pantera Performance Center, Precision profrmance, Steve Wilkinson, and Larry Stock.

All are exceptionally helpfull and would tell me on the spot if the parts were backorderd, etc.

The only complaint about any of them is that Steve doesn't like to answer his email. Steve, I can live with that. You always say to call anyway.

I am fishing a little but the problem with Mr.Jackle may be that he seems to be at a price disadvatage to US vendors.

I don't think that he liked me posting that new ignition switches were available from the Capri dealer new for $85 and he wanted $300.

Now maybe a vendor doesn't appreciate that but certainly the members here do. I'll point out that Hall gets $150 for the same thing. So I wonder exactly who was being unfair to who here?

Just ordered 180 dollars worth of parts from a vendor....I did not ask about shipping and handling...big mistake. It was almost 80 bucks.
That is outrageous. Also waited about 6 months to get a core charge refund from another vendor...he apparently lost my VISA number...but he never contacted me.
For me it has been 50/50.

Patrick,

Read this post. It may help in the future:

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1550045562...660035525#2660035525

Mark

I have only ordered parts twice from the vendors in the US. Both times, parts arrived in reasonable time, well packed, and my credit card was charged the agreed cost. My big beef is the shipping practices.

If you are sending or recieving large or heavy items that have to be handled by a speciality carrier than you absorb the high cost of shipping. That's the cost of doing business.

BUT, the last part I ordered was half the size of a can of soda and weighed less than 3 pounds. I begged the vendor to mail the parcel USPS priority mail.
Vendor: That's tough, we would have to send someone to the post office.
Me: If you won't mail send it UPS air which includes broker fees at the border.
Vendor: That will cost more.
M: Not as much as the UPS broker fees.
Vendor: I'll check it out and send it the cheapest way possible.
Me: Thanks.

6 days later, part arrives at my door. Shipped UPS ground

$28.00 shipping charged by vendor for shipping
COD at my door: $36.00 broker fee charged by UPS
$8.50 federal tax on value of
goods and broker fees.

Bottom line: $72.50 shipping and handling on a $150.00 part that could have been mailed for way less than $10.00. That my friends is insane.

I have had parts, some large, mailed USPS priority from all over the States, for other cars and have never paid fees, taxes, duty. Just pick them up at my local post office.

Could the vendors not make one trip to the post office per week. I would not mind waiting a few extra days to save that kind of difference. It would sure save all the people outside the continental US a ton of money and aggravation.

All the vendors I have talked to have been great, friendly people, but they could sure help out in this small way.
I don't think it is too much to ask.
Doug M

I have the same problem. Having parts shipped to Hawaii via UPS/FedEx costs an arm and a leg if not your first born. USPS ships flat rate very cheap yet none of the vendors will use them. I was told by someone that the vendors make money from discounted shipping rates offered to them by the shipping companies. This would make sense why they refuse to send via USPS, why cut your profits?

I cannot find the post may some of the others can help but when I sold my Webbers to a guy in the UK I labelled the package " Industrial Samples " and there were no tax and tariffs only shipping costs. Basically at this time everyone outside the USA is benefiting to the poor US Dollar ... so your getting the [arts at a discount ... I guess the cost of gas drove up shipping so the deal is not so great. But I have an idea ... pay for your order and put another brother Pantera Members address here in the USA and the next time you guys attend a event we hand you the parts ..then you drive back with the parts. No shipping cost ?

Ron

quote:

Bottom line: $72.50 shipping and handling on a $150.00 part that could have been mailed for way less than $10.00. That my friends is insane.

That my friends is Revenue Canada and the shipping companies, not the vendors. I've been caught with it too on Christmas gifts that came from the UK into Canada, but I don't think you can blame the vendors for it. It is time consuming to research each and every package and yes a daily bulk pickup is much easier.

quote:

This would make sense why they refuse to send via USPS, why cut your profits?

I think you will find that most vendors charge what they pay, so their business bulk rate is passed on to you the customer.

I live and work close to one of the vendors, PPC Reno. If you want to order a part and authorize Larry to give it to me addressed and packaged I will ship it for you, by your preferred method, you do the resreach and tell me what method etc. and I'll ship. I'll even try and work out a deal with Larry that you pay that shipping cost to him and he credits it to my account, so you don't have to worry about paying me too.

Most of us from Canada make regular business trips to the US. For me, it is the best way to remove the high price of brokers like UPS and FedEx.

When I know I am making a trip, I order parts and have them shipped to my hotel or wherever I am going to be in the US. Then I bring them back with me, or take them to a local FedEx and ship them to myself using my own account and pay no broker fees.

[quote]I think you will find that most vendors charge what they pay, so their business bulk rate is passed on to you the customer.

Agreed: I don't believe the vendors are making a profit on the shipping charges.

[quote]That my friends is Revenue Canada and the shipping companies, not the vendors.

Agreed: Shipping costs charged by the vendor were reasonable and fair.

I did some comparison shopping on rates:
I packaged the original part and got prices to ship it to southern California.

Canada Post: Ground 8-10 days $14.88(actually a little more than $10.00, not way less. My mistake)
Express 3-4 days $22.89
UPS: Ground 6-10 days $22.95+$4.50
insurance.
I will assume that rates will be similar to send in the reverse direction?

The difference lies in the extra charges levied by the courier company.
UPS: fees,taxes $44.50 (part UPS / part Canada
revenue)
USPS/Can post $00.00

I understand that the vendors are a business and in the business world, time is money. UPS is going to be far more convienant for them than the postal service. However, they should be aware that this practise is causing some of thier customers added and unneccesary expense, which is not the greatest customer relations.

IN DEFENSE OF THE VENDORS: I believe that the vendors are a vital component in the ownership of these cars. Their dedication and effort in supplying, designing, engineering and manufacturing parts and supplies is probably the single largest factor in keeping these cars in working order.
If UPS ground is the way they do business then I will resign myself to the fact that, living in Canada, this is going to be part of the costs of owning this car.
BUT DAM IT, I just wish they would agree to mail the stuff!!
OK, rant/rave is over. I feel much better now.
P.S. I love this car and will do whatever it takes to keep it in tip/top condition.
Doug M

I just ordered a few small misc items (stickers, key chain, Isis mag logo) from Asa Jay in the POCA store. Shipping was going to add an additional 50% to my order, which should weigh a grand total of 1 lb. I asked for everything to be send via US Postal Service instead (without insurance or tracking) for a grand total of $7 ...

Doug,

You are in Calgary, and I travel up and down fairly regularly between Reno-Calgary-Ft. McMurray (I'm typing this from Ft. McMurray) so I extend my offer to include bringing up any parts I can a) get in my luggage/carry (bear in mind some airlines are starting to charge $15-20 for the first piece of luggage now) and b) bring in to Canada without contravening any customs laws etc. or if needed declared and duties paid (I have enough trouble trying to retain my Canadian Residency without risking it for any customs offences)

I'm heading home tomorrow and will be back up for a week around June 15th.

Julian,

That is a very generous offer. Thank you!
Although there is nothing I can think of that I would need for mid June (hopefully I have the car ready to go strong for the summer) there will certainly be the need for parts etc. as time goes by. If the stuff I need is small and manageable I will definately take you up on your offer.

BTW: We are having a gathering of panteras in Canmore from June 13-16. If possible, you should join us for a day or two. I would be happy to pick you up and give you a ride out.
Doug M

HERE IS A CURRENT VENDOR SITUATION..

An owner recently lost his billet gas cap - the one that came with the curved aluminum Hall fuel neck. He posted to the POCA Forum seeking one, and then posted he had found a vendor that was able to hook him up with one; although many other vendors had said they were totally out of stock and no longer available.

Having lost the very same cap on my recent Vegas journey, I wrote the owner asking him to update me upon his receipt of the cap. He did, and the package arrived just the other day.

I just sent him this email-
________________________________________________

Ah, got to love that vendor.

Let me see if I got this right...

He first says he 'has them on the shelf' and it is 'in the mail'. LIE

He says his CNC guy can get them easily. LIE

Then he says it is delayed because he had to get it anodized. LIE

Then when it arrives, it is a plastic Perma Cap that you can find online for about $14, and at Kragens for $20. BAIT AND SWITCH, IF NOT FRAUD

He surely knows you can't anodize plastic, so this tells me he knew darn well what you were seeking - the aluminum cap to fit the Hall curved filler neck.

And if it had been 'on the shelf' it wouldn't have needed anodizing because they all came that way anyway.

But he leads you on and ships something you could have bought yourself for far less. I hate to ask, but what was your total cost after he charged you for shipping and handling? :-(

I honestly had a very high suspicion of this whole scenario from your first posting that he had that cap. That is why I held off calling him until I got your report on what the actual outcome was.

Rant mode off. ;-)

________________________________________________

And the vendors wonder why we rag on them?

Because they, at times, are jerks, assholes, liars and scam artists.

Larry

I'll gladly reveal who the vendor is, but in deference to George who seems to think telling the truth is sometimes not the best policy, you'll have to PM me for his name.

quote:

It is time consuming to research each and every package and yes a daily bulk pickup is much easier.

If you are shipping with UPS or Fed Ex you do have to research each and every package to ship with these companies, parcel post for the USPS needs to be researched to(size of package, weight, destination). It is part of the job and I know these guys are in business to make money, but wow.
We have been looking at sofa's. The lead time for the one we liked most was up to six weeks now. Alot of companies have reduced shipments to once a week now to reduce the shipping costs they are incurring.
Lastly...
The last part I purchased from a vendor weighed less than a pound, was in a 4"x4" box and it cost me $12.95 for shipping.
Shoot a manilla envelope and a couple of stamps and it would have been to me for less then two bucks.
Jeff

We hear these stories time after time, $10 to ship a part that could be sent for $2.00 usps, $40 to ship a part that could be sent USPS flat rate for $10 and so on and so on. Because of the shipping rates, I buy a lot less stuff than I would if it could be shipped cheaply. I don't mind waiting for the part if it means that I can get it shipped for reasonable rates and if I was in a rush, I would request and pay for the fast shipping. I don't see how it can be such a big deal to either deliver to a post office or to use click and ship and have it picked up. Wouldn't that be a great showing of customer support and service? The vendor who offers USPS shipping would attract a lot of customers especially those that are overseas and international. Hey, I don't mind them making a profit but with the rising cost of everything including shipping, we the consumers can use a little help. Just my opinion.

It sounds like most people are upset about shipping. I am the opposite. I have everything sent next day. Time is more important to me than money (within reason, of course).

What I hate is paying triple because something says "Detomaso" on it. Or paying a lot for NOS when there might be the same part out there for a newer car.

We still have it better than the Lambo guys though. A friend of mine was quoted $1200 for Diablo brake pads, and that might have been per axle (can't remember). She heard rumors that they are the same pads as on a 350Z. She is looking into it.

You wouldn't believe what they pay for commmon things like a distributor cap, plug wires or a starter. Parts that are one third the cost if you tell the parts place that it is for a Jag (same distributor cap, etc.).

R.