GT5 flare installation durability question?

I have taken some pictures of the stress crack areas on my car. I have tried to attach them to this post. Not sure if I have though? As I said before, I do not have any at the base of the windscreen A post yet. Something else you should do Gary while your car is apart, is reinforce around the door handles. The sheet metal in that area is very weak. People always try to close the door by pushing on the handle, and this causes it to dent. I have seen this on lots of cars. While my car was at the stage yours is at I welded in some little reinforcement bars from the sheet metal U shaped bit that the door handle bolts to, up to the box section that sits in the top of the door. This offers some strength to the metal above the handle, but not below. The glass is in the way below. I reckon the best way to fix this denting problem, and something I am going to try is to cut out a piece of aluminium plate about 2mm (80.000")thick and bond it to the inside of the door skin around the handle area. The steel in the area would have to be bare and preferably scratched up for a good key. Then bond it into place with a modern vehicle moulding adhesive. The type of product that would bond mouldings on to the side of a car.
It would of coarse be possible to weld a steel plate in with MIG plug welds, but this would cause an unnecessary potential rust trap and some finishing work.

In fact, this bonded aluminium idea might work for the deck lid opening cracks. The cracks around the rear tail lights would have to be done with the welder, as there is no nice flat area to bond the aluminium to. I do not have any experience with these adhesives, but I know some of them are very strong.

Johnny

OK, Lets try again. That last picture is the area that I was talking about a couple of days ago. Kirk Evans reckons this should be supported with a small tube attaching it to the chassis to prevent it flexing around and causing cracks around the tail lights. How do I put more than one picture in a post?

Deck lid opening crack. Very small at the moment, took 15000 miles to appear. Nothing on the other side yet. I fabricated the entire inner structure box section from the inner and outer B post, right back to the top of the suspension and then down to the pick up points on both sides. I wish now I had used this opportunity to make it all a lot stronger. I just reproduced what was there originally. That was as much as I could cope with back then. I had a lot of work ahead of me.

Johnny

Thanks for the tips Johnny. I will definantly look at those areas. Deffinantly the door handle. The second photo you showed may be related to the bumper. I don't have bumpers so it may not be of issue.

Johnny ... my car has the dents around the door handles .. I like the idea of bonding metal to the back side ... I'll have to take a look at that .. any other areas you recommend .. how about the base of the front post around the wind shield ??? and the deck lid I seen some one make a pad and pins so it dosent chip the edges ??

Thanks
Ron

Ron,

My deck lid has never chipped it's rear corners. This may be because I have remade so many of the box sections. I have seen this on lots of other cars though. I think the pins are a good idea. Or just some little rubber pads may be enough on some cars.

As for the base of the windscreen, this is a much more difficult area to strengthen. I have not looked at that area recently, but I think it would be necessary to cut some metal out in order to gain access for reinforcements. When my car was in bare metal, I ground out all of the lead at the bottom of the post, and reinforced it with the MIG welder as much as I could, I then put the lead back in. This is one area where lead is essential and plastic filler would crack.

My reinforcements with the MIG however where only really attaching the A pillar to the top of the fender, and not properly attaching it to the structure under the fender. In the future I am going to redo this area and make it very strong.

In most cases these stress cracks are only as deep as the paint or plastic filler. The steel and lead underneath is not cracked at all, it's just that the paint is not as flexible as the lead and steel. Another area I have seen hair line stress cracks is around the mounting point for the camber bar. Again, only paint deep. My car has satin black paint in the engine compartment, so you cant see it unless you get your head right in there. It would be a shame to see this on a body colour painted engine compartment, however. The way to fix this is to weld in a reinforcement plate from the wheel house side.


Another reason some cars have more cracks than others is nylon or polyurethane suspension bushes. these are hard on the body. I like rubber.


Gary, those cracks by the tail light are nothing to do with the bumpers. My car has never been 'bumped' and I have seen these cracks appear on cars with no bumpers and cars with Ralf Nader bumpers. You must address this area while it's in bare metal. It is not easy because the crack is right on the brazed joint. The factory used brazing because it is more flexible than weld. It didn't work in this area. You need to cut out the brazed bit and weld in some gussets from behind. Then seal it really well to stop rust.


If you have not already done so, I urge you to paint your entire car in two part acid etch primer as soon as possible. This will stick to the steel better than any "rust converter". You can put filler over the top of acid etch, but not before it is completely dry. I have seen media blasted cars flash rust before the body man has had a chance to put the acid etch primer on. I hate to see this.
Dont wait until you have addressed all the repair areas, you can always remove the primer in the areas you need to work on.
Forgive me if I am telling you stuff you already know, just sharing knowledge!

Johnny

Decklid .. my thoughts were ...looking at other cars you have a valid point with regard to rubber bumpers .. ususally there are at least 3 rubbers on each side ..Pantera only 1 ...

Base of the window my thoughts are possibly reweld existing joint and re do the lead joint .. then on the underside grind off the thin steel and fab a 1/8 plate extending about 6 inches in each direction replacing the existing sheetmetal so its flush.. possibly a good secondary attachment point for a roll cage. next maybe where the fender meets create a expansion joint and fill it with seam sealer and let it expand and contract as necessary ???

The camber bar .. you hit that one on the head .. we had discussed in previuos post about ROLL CAGE fastening points and that area is one of the key reinforcing areas ... exactly you use poly bushings and the car take unnecessary shocks and causes cracks. I feel a plate from the frame all the way up past the camber bar 1/8 steel would be on line.

The bumper area .. I see what your talking about .. below that area there is an expansion seam that seperates the rear panel but doesnt contiue into the tail lights .. I say continue the seam and fill it with seam sealer or weld up the seam and redo the brazed joint and fill it with lead. Yes a little brase from the frame to the outer bolt or tail light is a great idea.

Gary and I have discussed the etching primer and I see your points. 6476 with regular stripper seems to not rust after stripper is removed a residue seems to prevent rust temporarly until I get to the blasting stage. once blasted ... the 2 part etcing primer goes on the car then touching up the areas welded and repaired is a good idea. After that I'm going to shoot the rust inhibitor into the nooks and crannys.

The Pantera is a flexible car that needs reinforcing .. so the discussion is most beneficial even for the most seasoned Pantera guy ... is real life CRACKS that we speak about here ... LOL

Ron

quote:

I like the idea of bonding metal to the back side

The car manufacturers use a thick piece of premolded fiberglas that they glue to the painted inside of the panel around these kinds of areas. If someone could make a mold to produce the piece, it would be a simple install.

Johnny I will go out and look but I don't see a braised joint there and there is no rust. There were no cracks there before I stripped it. I will look a little more closely at it.



As far as primer I have that covered. It is the number one priority but weather is interrupting. It has been soda blasted but I am sand blasting or sanding everything to fresh metal before covering. POR15 is going over bare metal in the underbelly which has been sandblasted. I am not going to put it over primer because it will defeat what it is used for. Metal is freshly blasted so it will stick well. Rest of the car will be etch primed but not till I get good clean virgin metal.



Meanwhile, with the weather not so good I will be doing metal work.

Gary

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
If you make it in this area please stop by. Be glad to help with what ever I can. I am just a couple hours north of Nashville.

Sure! Show me up!

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Woods:
Deck lid opening crack. Very small at the moment, took 15000 miles to appear. Nothing on the other side yet. I fabricated the entire inner structure box section from the inner and outer B post, right back to the top of the suspension and then down to the pick up points on both sides. I wish now I had used this opportunity to make it all a lot stronger. I just reproduced what was there originally. That was as much as I could cope with back then. I had a lot of work ahead of me.

Johnny

This one is what my wife calls the Pantera crack. Every car I have seen has this.
Mine didn't until after I painted it.
It was still in the shop and not driven and the cracks developed in the paint.
I thought it was a paint flexabilaty issue actually. What do I know? Not much apparently.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Sure! Show me up!

LOL, She layed the weld you see in the front!

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Sure! Show me up!

LOL, She layed the weld you see in the front!

How does she charge? Hourly, by the job, by the lolipop?