Help me choose my new wheels

I like those wheels as wheel. For a 5 spoke I think the wheels Ron has are the right balance. Spokes that are not too thin or thick.

quote:

Originally posted by Rocky:
These are wheels I like.



It's like the wheels Jimmy posted, which I also like, but could never afford...

Rocky

I'd rock those 10-spokes, but I'm relatively partial.

TrueForged Wheels can do a nice concave version of the 10-spoke wheel you want. Would give you that full look, but still allow for a bit of lip, if that's what you're going for. All custom, just let Steve know your measurements. Very economical compared to HREs and such but very similar quality.

FWIW, you mentioned you wanted to go a 18/20 route. I went 18/19s in the TrueForged brand(WAS easy to find 19 tires in 345 due to the Vipers).

I think the FR500s are a great choice. Inexpensive, but not very common. Have a nice linear/angular look which would compliment the lines of the Pantera.

If anyone has a good set of recommendations (vendor, sizes, backspacing) for the FR500s, feel free to post them up...

With pictures, please!

The wheels below are from lambolp400s' car, but these wheels had to be custom widened, and fit.

Thanks -

Rocky

I usually like a wide variety of modifications, especially when it comes to wheels; however for me anyway only this style looks "right" to me on the Pantera. A lot of other wheels just don't seem like they belong on the car. Weren't Pantera venders offering these at one time, or similar? I thought they were made to be similar to actual Group 4 wheels, maybe that's why I prefer them in taking on the right look for he car.

Or actually, these are what I was thinking about:

Hi Jan.

I like the 10 spoke Campy look too, for certain cars. I have a narrow body however and would prefer the early style Campy clones. But I have six reservations:

(1) I'd like to stay away from two piece or three piece wheels, boutique wheels, etc. I prefer a one piece cast wheel. The TSW wheels, or wheels available from Enkei racing, are just as strong, lighter, and cost $200 to $300 per wheel, depending upon size. I can purchase a set of 4 wheels on eBay for $1000. Plus the price of longer wheel studs and spacers.

(2) The vendors offering the Campy clones have not kept up with the current sizing in tires. I would not spend $2.00 on 17" wheels, let alone $2500.00. I perceive purchasing 17" wheels tantamount to sleeping on a bed of nails or beating myself with chains. Acquiring larger Campy clone wheels leaves me having to deal with American Republic Wheels directly (difficult), accepting their compromises, AND spending 2-1/2 times the amount of money. That seems like a similar situation, again tantamount to sleeping on a bed of nails, etc.

(3) The vendors have a predilection for 335mm rear tires, I prefer 285mm tires on 10" wide wheels. On the front I prefer 245mm tires on 8-1/2" wide wheels.

(4) Both the front & rear tires should be inset from the edge of the fender the same amount.

(5) The wheels should be designed for tire pairs that are approximately 2" different in diameter front to rear, so after leveling the chassis, the front and rear tires are positioned within the fender arches with equal spacing.

I want my car to look the best it can. Even a Hyundai has issues 4 & 5 sorted out. For $2500 (or sometimes more) I think the wheels I purchase for my $80K Italian classic should also have those issues sorted out.

(6) I want painted wheels that don't have to be polished. For $2500 they should at least have a clear coat! Perhaps my car, intended to be a daily driver rather than a show car, excludes me from using such wheels? Or perhaps my Okie ancestry makes me too pre-occupied (nice way of saying lazy) to polish wheels all the time.

Yeah, on #6 clear coat is great. Have it on my MBZ SL65 wheels and it makes life easy. It's enough work just wiping off the brake dust. However I think you may loose just a little bit of brilliance with clear coat. I reacall seeing examples of my fuel injection system with and without clear coat, and with clear coat there was a slight brilliance loss. However at 61 y/o it isn't all that fun crunched in the engine bay for hours polishing it till my legs are numb. Bottom line, I would still choose clear coat even on wheels.

Maybe another choice? 17x8-18x11 AC-III Team III Wheels.

Looks good Curt! Care to share the tire widths & offsets?

I haven't seen you in a while. I hope all is well. We'll catch-up one of these days soon.

quote:

Originally posted by DOES 200:

... at 61 y/o it isn't all that fun crunched in the engine bay for hours polishing it till my legs are numb. Bottom line, I would still choose clear coat even on wheels ...

amen brother

quote:

Originally posted by George P:
Looks good Curt! Care to share the tire widths & offsets?

I haven't seen you in a while. I hope all is well. We'll catch-up one of these days soon.

George...

The wheel off sets are, Fronts, back spacing 5.375=22mm. Backs, back spacing 6.50=13mm My Tire sizes are, fronts 245/40/R17 Backs 295/35/R18 The tires are Continental Tires. Con Extreme Contact. You can get the Wheels in pretty much what ever BS you want! I got the tires from America's Tire, the cost 2 years ago was about $850 for 4 tires!

Curt

George, I went with the American Republic Wheels. I went with a 18 x 11.5. It cost extra for that size but it allows me to run 3 different sizes (295/35/18, 315/30/18, 335/30/18. The back spacing is 7". I wanted it slightly recessed from my factory 10" wheels which are flush with the body.

Here is one picture with the 335/30/18's. I wanted them slightly recessed similar to Chip Foose's Pantera rear wheel fitment.

Like Curt, I also went with a 17 x 8 for the front, but with a 245/40/17 BF Goodrich g force rival.

Thanks for sharing that Jim, from the camera angle it looks as though you've nailed the offset for the 335mm tire.

Its a common theme in auto design to have the tires "become exposed" from under the fender at the belt line, where the body begins to roll under. I feel that's ideal too. Is that a good description of how your back tires fit?

The tires do become exposed around the belt line.

Top shot.

Front side shot. Dave and I had decided to do a test fit before the center was welded. I had the tire mounted, looked at the fit from multiple angles, liked what I saw so kept the 7" back space, sent them back to Dave for final welding. The rear wheel traveled from the west coast to the east coast twice. I have since considered a 18 x 8 front since I have seen a few other tires that would work out as well.

I had asked Dave if he could make my wheels like the Campy Clones from the 2005-2008 years, as I had liked the detail on these wheels. These use the OEM center caps and require no adapters.

Clone and OEM.

Interesting, by my calculations the offset of your rear wheels is 19mm. When I do the math, the factory wheels (-6mm offset) with a 285mm P7 should be inset within the wheel house identical to a 335 with 19mm offset. You wrote earlier you wanted the 335 "slightly" more inset.

How much more is "slightly", any idea? (3mm = 1/8")

My previous rear tires, 325mm, where flush with the fender edge with 12mm offset, they could have used being inset at least 3mm in order to achieve that "exposed at the belt line" look. A 335mm should be flush with 17/18mm offset, and inset with 21/22mm.

Perhaps my calculation is wrong (based on calculated backspace verses measured backspace). Has American republic wheels ever quoted an offset value? 22mm perhaps?

If not, could I talk you into measuring your new wheels?

Here's the back views of 6018 with the 325's and the Chip Foose Pantera.

From Chip Foose's web site:

"In most of these photos, the tires shown are:

•Pirelli P-Zero Tires F-245/35/18 & R-325/30/19


But have since been changed to the following for a better fitment.

•Front 18x8 with 5.25 back space aka +19mm offset. Pirelli P-Zero Tires 225/40/18
•Rear 19x11 with 6.25 back space aka +06mm offset. Pirelli P-Zero Tires 285/35/19"

6mm offset (positive) sounds like too much to me. I'd sure like to see a picture of that.

That would work out like this:

Tire Width | Offset
335mm ...... 31mm
325mm ...... 26mm
315mm ...... 21mm
305mm ...... 16mm
295mm ...... 11mm
285mm ...... 6mm
275mm ...... 1mm

I'm leaning towards this

Tire Width | Offset
335mm ...... 22mm
325mm ...... 17mm
315mm ...... 12mm
305mm ...... 7mm
295mm ...... 2mm
285mm ...... -3mm
275mm ...... -8mm

Or this

Tire Width | Offset
335mm ...... 25mm
325mm ...... 20mm
315mm ...... 15mm
305mm ...... 10mm
295mm ...... 5mm
285mm ...... zero
275mm ...... -5mm

Its obvious in the picture of 6018 it needs to be recessed a bit more (its a 325mm tire with 12mm offset). It would be nice to have Jim's offset as a data point. Although it calculates to 19mm based on backspacing, I'd guess its probably 22mm.

I can't believe Mr. Foose chose an 11" wide wheel for a 285mm tire, too wide, the sidewall will be canted inward.

George,

Foose was using Pirelli Trofeo R tires before he switched sizes. If he's still using Trofeo R's, the section width of a 285/35-19 is 11.4", so an 11" wheel isn't completely out of range.

Just to further complicate the issue of offsets, keep in mind, one manufacturer's 285 could be +/- 6mm different in width from another manufacturer's 285. What I'm referring to is the real "measure with a caliper from one sidewall to the other" width.

Also, FYI: American Republic wheels recommends an 8" wheel on the front with 22mm offset and an 11" wheel on the rear with 13mm offset.

George the back spacing is 7". I used some of those formulas from this site in the beginning, but I still wasn't sure about the fitment, so I started with my 15 x 10" first. I liked the fit overall(flush with body) but wanted them to be slightly recessed. I used a slightly different method for my wheels.
OEM 15 x 10 is actually 15 x 11. B.S. is 5.25" so the front space would be 5.75" =11". I knew that I could not have a b.s. on the wheels that would have the front space to be any more than 5.75" and have the fit be flush. So with a 11.5" width actually 12.5" - 7" b.s. = 5.5" front space and it would be .25" less than the OEM campy's and giving a slight recess. I know this method might have been a little unorthodox but it worked, and since I was doing a test fit before the final welding for the center I felt more comfortable trying it this way.

If you would like any more pictures with different angles, I will gladly provide them. Hope this helps. One owner whose car was on the cover of a POCA Profiles issue in 2015 was kind enough to give me his b.s. from his Pantera East wheels and some of the other owners on this site were kind as well to help me out. So thanks again to everybody.

Understanding that all these variations exist, the offset number remains the most reliable data for designing a wheel. It tells us where the center of the tire is in relation to the wheel mounting flange. The edge of the tire can then be predicted, normally within +/- 3mm. Offset is very easy to measure, the picture I posted a few posts above shows how. I would still love to know the offset of your Pantera's rear wheels Jim.

George it has been quite awhile since I had the wheels made(~10-12 months give or take). When Dave and I discussed the wheels it was usually b.s. He and I did talk about offsets, but not that much and I do not remember the numbers now. I would usually would mention the b.s. and sometimes he would roughly calculate it from there. The only thing I know for sure is the b.s. is 7" and they fit exactly the way I was hoping. You could try contacting Dave and mention my wheels, he might be able to help you out on this. Gen2's Pantera in the wheels section had a very similar fit, but I believe were 12" wide. They were also American Republic Wheels(Campy Clones) but with a different style barrel. He had a b.s. of 7.25".

Here is another shot of his wheels.

George, according to the formula for calculating offset (7"b.s - 5.5" f.s.)/2 = .75".
.75" x 2.54cm/1" =1.905cm or 19.05mm.

These wheels should have a offset of ~19.05mm. That is the same calculation that you arrived at.

George,

Don't 15" x 10" Campi's have zero offset? If so, they should have 5.5" BS not 5.25" as Jim mentioned.

Jim, did you measure the backspacing at 7" or is that what you ordered? American Republic also prints the specs on a label that they put on each wheel box. Do you have any rubbing with that high an offset? I have 335 width tires on 16mm offset wheels but they rub a little on the upper frame rail, or they did until I made modifications to prevent it.

David, I did measure the wheels tonight and it has a 7" b.s. Dave and I discussed some different b.s options as the rims were being made, but we felt the 7" would work well. I had mentioned gen2 b.s. of 7.25" on a 12" wheel and thought that the fitment looked good, so with my wheels being a 1/2" less it should work out well.

I am pretty sure I measured my OEM 10's and came up with a b.s of 5.25", but then again this was awhile ago, so I could be wrong on this.

David, to answer your question on rubbing issues, with the car in air I did not have any, but have not driven the car yet. I am currently waiting on a Clevor stroker motor for it. The motor is almost finished. I had read about potential frame rail rubbing issues and their fixes from you in one another thread.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmym:

... These wheels should have a offset of ~19.05mm ...

That is also the offset I calculate for Gen2pantera's wheels. It is clear in the picture that his Pantera's tires become exposed above the beltline. Is this true of your Pantera's tires too? Looking at Gen2's picture I would say that a little more than 19mm offset is needed for a 335mm tire.

quote:

Originally posted by David_Nunn:

... Don't 15" x 10" Campi's have zero offset ...

I have never owned a set of 15x10 Campys, I was told by more than one source that the offset was -6mm. I've relied upon that data for a long time.

I love it when the juices get flowing.

George,

If a 15x10 Campi has -6mm offset then Jim's backspacing measurement of 5.25" was 100% accurate.

Jim,

I believe most of the rubbing problem I had was due to the Hoosier tires I'm running. They are about an inch wider than a normal street tire and the tread is the widest part of the tire, which makes matters even worse. I'm about to switch back to a normal street tire while I can still get them. I might try un-doing some of the things I did to prevent rubbing, to see if it was all caused by the tires.

So for now, I'm going to continue recommending these offset values for the rear tires, in order to achieve the spacing in which the rear tires "become exposed" from under the fender at the belt line, where the body begins to roll under. This results in a small amount of inward recess from the fender's edge.

Tire Width | Offset
335mm ...... 22mm
325mm ...... 17mm
315mm ...... 12mm
305mm ...... 7mm
295mm ...... 2mm
285mm ...... -3mm
275mm ...... -8mm

With the understanding that:

(1) tires with more than 12mm offset will require additional shock bumpers to limit suspension travel
(2) any rear tire greater than 26.5” diameter and wider than 285mm MAY rub the Ansa mufflers
(3) the 17” wheel designed for the 335/35R17 tire must be no wider than 11”, and must use 12mm offset, otherwise it will hit the lower control arm pivot
(4) wheels 18” in diameter or larger are large enough in diameter to clear the lower control arm pivot, they are not limited to 12mm offset or 11” width

Mr. Foose apparently used 9mm (3/8") more offset than this when the first Pantera was updated with 285mm rear tires. That car is now in private hands, anyone have a picture of that?