My Pantera Got Wrecked

Wow, I am truly sorry to here this. I hope it turns out to your satisfaction...I'm really, really sorry. Your car was beautiful.

quote:

left quarter just behind the door, in front of the wheel.

Make sure, as best you can, that the impact did not include the wheel/tire. A strong wheel impact can transfer damaging force into the ZF. And we all know that can mean $$$$.

My advice to determine what quality of paint you need is to view your current paint indoors under fluorescent light. It is VERY revealing. Your new paint needs to match what they replaced.

Wish I knew this prior to the repaint of 2511

Larry

Remember, the fuel tank is behind that panel (if by left side you mean driver's side)...and the only way to remove it is to pull the engine...so you'd better be confident that it has not been bent and stressed enough to crack later when the insurance company has paid off on the body work and you end up footing the bill for an engine pull.
You really did that car up right when you got it. I know we're all bummed for you.
Mooso

Adams, I am very sorry to hear about this. I know how much trouble you've gone to to maintain the originality of your car. All I can recommend is what you would do anyway, get a VERY capable shop involved to evaluate the true extent of the damage. Proper paint blending should really help if they only repair that area, but even if a full repaint is required, I don't see it having a huge impact on the value of the car.

Besides, it's not like you would ever sell it anyway, right? Does it matter THAT much how much the kids get for it when they eventually have to sell?

The advice above regarding the tank, ZF and other fragile areas is very good.

Best of luck with it.

Mark

That's why this board is so valuable. In a few minutes, I've gotten three huge insights:

1. The ZF
2. The tank
3. Matching quality under fluorescents

Virtually none of the above would've made it to the ever-chintzy "assessment" by Mr. Adjuster. He will, I'm sorry to say, get an unintentional education in these cars in the coming weeks.

Please, keep the advice coming. I'm already thoroughly appreciative.

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
Make sure, as best you can, that the impact did not include the wheel/tire. A strong wheel impact can transfer damaging force into the ZF. And we all know that can mean $$$$.

Of course, if the wheel did get hit, the 10" Campys are very expensive and hard to find too, so make sure that doesn't get overlooked.

Happy Birthday Adams.

Michael

Adams,
Sorry to read about your car. Take your time and do not let AIG force you into using their body shop or some preferred shop. The car needs to be repaired where YOU want the work done. Their insured damaged the car and you control the process. Some shops do amazing jobs of color matching and blending. It is possible to avoid a total re paint unless you want this done. It may be difficult to force AIG in to a total repaint, unless it is done by some local economy shop. You will be talking lots of $$$ to have the car totally repainted to the quality you expect.
Also, you should be able to collect for diminished value. With a proper repair the car should still bring close to comparable value. However, the law in many states requires payment for diminished value. In Georgia the diminished value amount is some bizarre calculation and if you do not ask for it the insurance company is not required to pay it. I collected almost 2K for diminished value on 9K in damages to a 1 month old Acura TSX. Diminished value should be your trump card, check the law in Alabama.
Last, take lots of pics.

Good luck.
Jeff

Sounds like trip back to Massachusets? In SC we have the right to get our fixed at the shop of our choice..Need pics......

Ack!

Adams my friend, I have an absolutely sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. Damn.

Writing happy birthday seems like a sarcastically bad joke right now. Ack.

Sympathy, warm thoughts and care my friend.

George

(btw, I moved your post to the ownership issues forum, it seemed more appropriate)

I know how bad this is at this time for you --- very sad. Originality is hard to ever get back. I had a bad experience with State Farm 10 years ago, and from that I would chime in to what others have said here about insurance companies and add this -- do NOT give in to the first settlement that they offer. Do what you KNOW needs to be done, and do not stray from that. Let them sweat it out time wise. Do not jump at a settlement unless you are TOTALLY satisfied with it. Also, do not put yourself in a position where you HAVE to settle with the insurance company. This is where they can get you over a barrel.

Best of luck with your car. Very sad what happened -- now you need to be patient to get done what needs to get done.

Remember, time should be on your side with this one, not the insurance company; so make it so.

Mark

Damn, too bad since your car is so unique with original paint and rare color to boot! Before I sold my orange car I was thinking of repainting the decklid due to some minor checking showing up. Top of the line shops said they could try and match it, but most likely it would not match up 100%. There must be some value to an original paint car that the insurance company would take into consideration, as this is always a good selling point when collector cars come on the market.

Adams,
Very,very sorry to hear about your car. I just got finished with a repair of the right front damage on my car that ocurred in late October last year when a little gal ran a Stop sign in front of me. We're both lucky in the fact that the other driver actually had insurance! I fully agree with all the tips you've been given to this point by everyone else who has posted regarding dealing with the other persons' insurance adjuster. I can tell you from my experience that you need to start collecting parts prices & availability from the various vendors once you determine what needs to be replaced. Like me, you'll probably have to lead the adjuster by the hand on where to go for the part(s) that are necessary for a complete & acceptable repair. It can be a slow process but just be patient and your car can look good as new in the end. Good Luck!

Major bummer, sorry. Regarding your paint, I have some great pals who own high end restoration shops, cover of car craft kind of stuff, I have learned with these guys the bad news...your paint will most likey not match.
your paint is 34? years old and faded over time, body shop can't match faded paint, what is sprayed today could fade, so to speak, differently.
Your paint is now longer made, probably Laq or single stage enamel , today's paint is base coat/ clear coat. you can still paint single stage but cannaot blend, you would have to paint a panel to door jams and pic a spot at the roof line.
Have them repaint the car...they will not win the argument.

A proffessional classic car appraisor is worth the call if you have to fight the insurance company over total repaint. if so interview his knowlage before you hire them to got the right one, dont assume he knows his stuff. should be about 200.00 for a certifed appraisal.

Good luck with everything,
Daniel

A Hudson:

The shop that your car is in must take the responsibility of the damage. In insurance terms this is called Care, Custody, Control. The shop has a garage liability policy that the claim has to be placed with.The terms mentioned above is for this kind of claim. The shop owner is fully liable for ANY damages to a clients vehicle. The second source of the claim is the owners father with AIG.

Call your own ins agent and ask questions about the subject, if your agent isn't familiar with "garage liability coverage than ask for a referral .

Now what comes in to play, do you want the car fixed or do you want a claim for market value ???

SOOOOO sorry to hear of this, very sad indeed

Wayne

Adams, I feel for you. But it's a chance to look on the bright side. The paint will survive and will be blended into a bad memory. Such things are inevitable. Now it's like spilling wine on a white tablecloth. Once it happens, it's over. The next one makes no difference. So make the best deal you can and consider yourself lucky it was so minor - low speed, in someone's shop, no one hurt and you weren't even there.

Sad to hear about your car. I know the experience, and (re) feel your pain.

Your car is in the Registry from 8/06, but
apparently the photos were not from you, sadly.

Adding fresh photos when you got the car to the Registry might have helped support the value of the condition and it's rarety.

So others may benefit from this tradegy, people, take photos of your car NOW. Don't wait until something happens, as then you may be at a disadvantage when it comes to dealing with an insurance company.

I wish you the best of luck. I think the previous suggestions are good regarding the fuel tank, wheels, and diminished value etc...
The worst is at hand, but it will improve.

Get some photos of the damage QUICK, before someone tries to make it look less bad somehow.


Chuck

A Hudson

Really sorry to hear about this little accident. I don't think posting photos will help anything. However having the work done correctly and documented is probably the most important.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Melton:

Your car is in the Registry from 8/06, but
apparently the photos were not from you, sadly.

Adding fresh photos when you got the car to the Registry might have helped support the value of the condition and it's rarety.

So others may benefit from this tradegy, people, take photos of your car NOW. Don't wait until something happens, as then you may be at a disadvantage when it comes to dealing with an insurance company.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck. I had a bunch of photos (actually done for PI magazine) of the car, so I presume I'm okay even without having them in the Registry. Would you like or care for the updated pics?

To all others, your help (and empathy) has been incredible. I feel at an advantage now, to put it mildly, and all will work out fine I feel certain. Any other input, keep it coming.

Thanks again.

Having a set of photos is good. When did your car appear
in PI? Have a copy of the issue when you deal with the insurance company.

Yes, it would be good to add your photos to the Registry.

Send all the hi-res photos you want to editor1@provamo.com
I'll add them to the entry, and make sure it is connected to your e-mail (using the account you send by.)

Having gone thru this I feel your pain.

Chuck

Adam, sorry this is our first communication, would have much preferred to meet over a beer.

How do you have the car insured......estated value? or market value? I ask this in the case AIG gets difficult, and you need to start a claim with your carrier.

The car was hit in the quarter panel? IMHO the motor and fuel tank NEED to be removed, not only do you want the outside of the quarter repaired, you want the "witness" markes addressed on the back side of the panel (a good place for future corrosion to start)and the only way to do this is with clear access to the area.

The body of the Pantera is a unibody, and all outside panels were seemed at the factory before they were painted: ie: no cut off breaks to panel paint. If your vehicle was in my shop, I would bid this repair to include complete dissasembly of the exterior trim to include all exterior lamps, emblems, bumpers, and glass. The "shell" of the car needs to be painted complete.

The kicker here, they will probably not pay to paint the hood, deck lid, headlamp doors, or passanger door. They owe to blend the drivers door for color match though. Blend Info attached.

The file was too big, I can email to your regular email if you like.

Feel free to call me 949-795-1991

Cheers Mark 6808

Adams,

I'm sorry to hear of the damage to your car. Truly a shame. But I'm thankful that it's relatively minor as far as accidents go and neither you nor your son (or anyone else in your family) were involved in the accident.

Ditto what everyone else already said; lots of great advice here. It will be fixed.

Happy Birthday anyway! After all, you have much to be thankful for!

Cheers!
Garth

Adams! So sorry to hear what happened. I hope everything works out ok at the end.

Regards,

-William

Oh, and Happy Birthday!

Hey Adams,
It was meant to be.
Now you can paint the car yellow and start picking up chicks

Best of luck.

Wow Sorry to hear about your misfortune,but I must stress the importance of who will be repairing the car.If you have large dents from the accident I would suggest you ask to see the car in bare steel before paint so that you can make sure the repair was done correctly with the least amount of bodyfill as possible.If you are not happy with the repair I would ask for complete panel replacement Sorry just my 2 cents

Adams,

Man that's the pits, but on your birthday too it just adds insult to injury. I feel for you.

Lot's of good advice already. In my younger days in the UK I had a British Racing Green Triumph Stag. I was witing to turn right and a guy clips my rear left fender not paying attention. Anyway to cut a long story short the rear fender is a bitch to fit on the Stag, found out after the fact the shop cut the new fender, used only teh rear half by seem welding it in the middle of the wheel arch to save on work. I had a fit when I found out, they siad it was standard practice. From then on I have always made a point of dropping in any shop to check on progress of my vehicle first hand. The shop also could not match the BRG paint exactly it would be just off color in certain lights, so in teh end they ended up painting the whole car. It might not look it but the green is a difficult color to match especially in a 30 yr old tone that has faded and as soemone said even if you natch it today wil it fade differently 6 months or a year down the road.

Get your insurer involved on your behalf to help fight the claim for you and good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Murph:
Hey Adams,
It was meant to be.
Now you can paint the car yellow and start picking up chicks

Best of luck.

WAS THAT MY ONLY PROBLEM!?!?!? Man, if I'd only known! I tried to order the paint, but the guy said the Oscar Meyer Weiener mobile got the last gallon of that yellow. (Green jokes soon to ensue.)

Man, you guys have been remarkable on this. I went to the car today for the first time, camera in hand. Not as bad as my paranoia had predicted, but a mashed in place between the wheelwell and gas tank. Wrinkled the wheel lip, mostly below the belt line.

Am awaiting the call from his adjuster. BTW, it was suggested by Joules to get with MY company (Haggerty) which was good advice too.

Mark 6808 and others mentioned the 'inner' parts of this damage and that's yet to be determined, but all your info will add up to a more credible presentation.

And I hope I didn't sound complainy on my birthday thing, because I had a great day...

Played in the garage, saw my son play baseball, built a chandelier (mostly), went to dinner, had fun. Sure, the Pantera got dented too, but the members here reminded me of the great value of your expertise and friendships. All's well.

Just read this thread Adams, what a bummer, I am sure it is frustrating but from reading your other posts i know you are ever the optimist and your enthusiasm will win over.
The only thing is you may now have no choice but to take the Boxer out more, at least for a while.
Best of luck
Steve

Thanks Steve. You're right, I DO need to drive that other car more! (Interior is out right now while I do some leather work in that car. So I'm in the Viper these days.)

The Pantera insurance 'dance' has only just begun, but it's gonna turn out fine. Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.

Another thought on the gas tank. If you decide to go ahead with the body work without pulling the tank, be SURE to go to the body shop before the work is started and tell the most intelligent looking adult employee that they CANNOT drill that panel and use hammer pullers to pull out the dent. Inform them that the GAS TANK is on the other side of that panel and you DO NOT want holes drilled in it.
As a matter of fact...go to each employee one at a time and inform them individually.
I had lots of minor damage under my chassis from misplaced jacks. I had it all repaired before I took my car to the body shop. I specifically and pointedly told this to the body shop manager and showed him where to jack the car and where not to. I came into the shop to check on my car and one of their fine employees had put two jacks under the drivers side to tip the car up on two wheels to make working on the rocker panel easier for him. You guessed it...he stuck the jacks right on the repaired areas and crushed them. It was clear that this was not the first time or place that this had been done by them.
I pulled the car out of that body shop immideately and took it elsewhere. I was so pissed I didn't even ask them to repair the damage.
Of course the point is...trust no one. Be a pain in their ass. No matter how competent they might seem, monitor their work.
Mooso

Wow Mooso, thanks for that. In fact, to ALL who've been over-the-top helpful.

Yesterday the appraiser suggested, "8.5 hours" to redo the work. We had a longish discussion about 'blending' and why I'm opposed, and told him that I would not even be on the phone with him if this was my wife's Honda Pilot, but planned on being a pain in the neck on this car.

This thread has given me more than a little needed and appreciated ammunition in the war on mediocrity. Thanks again!

Adams,

So sorry to have to be following this saga. I really admire your positive thinking and outlook on this situation. If you need any pictures of the engine bay, gas tank, area with and without the tank to "help" your cause with an unfamiliar adjuster or shop I have them all from # 3463's resto.

...sure hope the 10" Campy's were spared...

Dave # 3463

quote:

Originally posted by BOXXBOYS:
Adams,

So sorry to have to be following this saga. I really admire your positive thinking and outlook on this situation. If you need any pictures of the engine bay, gas tank, area with and without the tank to "help" your cause with an unfamiliar adjuster or shop I have them all from # 3463's resto.

...sure hope the 10" Campy's were spared...

Dave # 3463

Dude, I'm about ready for a group hug! Thanks for the offer and I'll definitely keep it in mind. You think the Insurance company might have a problem that your car has had more spent on it recently than UPS spent on gas last month? Nah, maybe not.

Honestly, the 'inside' view might be helpful in the future and I'll remember the offer.

The 10" Campy's were spared! Yahoo! I actually was a bit concerned on that issue, but it appears no damage to tire or rim.

Thanks for weighing in. Will keep the saga going.

Okay, got the insurance estimate and all. Wickedly uniformed. "Blending 2 stage paint..." was all I needed to see.

We're now ready for Round 2. They know they muffed and are willing to see another bid.

So, I speak to the local guru of painting, who concurs with many of you here. He's to give me another estimate for a full repaint.

To be perfectly honest, though my paint is now clearly compromised, I'll have to think long and hard about a full repaint. I may live with the best "paintless" effort I can. Just a tough call to make. Sorry for my personal aside...

What I really need now is someone to chime in who knows the paint TYPE, Manufacturer, and even paint code/color of my car. Mine was merely known as "dark green" far as I know, but any more specifics would be GREAT.

Thanks to all. You're a huge help.

Adams,

If I bought my specific Patera because of it's originality factor and it got hit, there may be a sense of disappointment, and loss of value that I may not want to accept. This may sound extreme, but if originality meant more to me than the particular Pantera itself, I might go after the insurance company to replace the whole car based on that aspect of my ownership/investment. They have to make you 'whole' for your loss, and by painting a panel, or the whole car, that could never again occur. A car's paint is only factory original once.

Like I said, it's an extreme point of view, but your posts over these past couple of years suggest that you crave originality more than most. These posts would support that case.

Michael

Adams,

I have the paint code at home on a can (#7024 is the same green) and can post later. Paints have come a long way in 30 years and the closest to original spec would probably be an enamel. I had to do some paint work and the only supplier I could get to mix the code was Sherwin Williams. That said the paint code is probably pretty useless (as it was to me) because the paint had faded over the years and the new paint "stood out like a sore thumb". You'll likely have to get a direct match to the paint color as it currently is on your car, which brings us full circle to earlier comments on paint matching.

Adams,
This is just my 2 cents (maybe 10 w/inflation!)But if your main concern is maintaining your car's originality than do not re- paint the entire car.

I disagree with some over the statement that you can never blend a proper match. This may be true of the average high volume body shop. It should not be a problem for a shop that specializes in high end exotic/classic vehicles.

I have friends that are mangers at the Lambo store here in Atlanta. A metallic yellow Murci ran in to a deer. The damage was minor to the front bumper and a slight crease in the leading edge of the hood. It required blending and I could not for the life of me tell where it had been painted/blended.

Personally I would pay more for car with a perfect repair than a total repaint. It is more likely that you will find new issues with a re-paint than you originally had. Expect to pay a minimum of $6K-$8K for a paint job equal to the not so great original paint job by "Tony". The body shop you select will most likely need to start with the original color code formula and than hand blend to match the exact shade now on your 30+ year old cat. I have seen this done with a red classic Jeep CJ and the match was perfect. It just takes finding the right shop.

Do NOT forget the diminished value component. You can get estimates from classic car appraisers and shove this on the adjuster. The diminished value can be highly subjective
(= grossly inflated for your benefit). It may be capped by your state law, so check with your insurance commission.

Take lots of digital pics of the damage for a future owner.The originality issue should not be a problem. It is not like the car was in a major chassis bending wreck !

Good luck and take your time with settling and selecting your shop.

Jeff

Adams,

I'm very sorry to hear of your loss to a very fine Original Car. I would have to say I had a very similiar experience when I shipped 6476 from Calif to NY only I wasnt a smart as most. I purchased the car from a dealer and he shipped it. I didnt put inurance on the car as he stated it was being shipped as cargo. So I track the car all the way to NJ the car sits there for 2 weeks and one night they call me and say they are delivering the car. The car arrives in my driveway and some young kid unloads the car and WAAAA LLLAAA its smashed .. Luckily he dropped it and took off .. I called the POLICE and filed a report and made my Girlfriend and her Mom sign documents that it arrived smashed ... to make a long story short it took me 11 months to make a settlement with the body shop and the Insurance co .. for about 12k and then the body shop tried to rip me off and never did any of the suspension work ... I ahd to chase him in the end to give me back 3500 because he never completed the work ... it was a night mare but I fought them to the end and eventually tore the entore car apart to do a complete resto ... mod.

Ron

Adams,
Check the factory parts catalog page 10. They list 3 greens:

Medium Green V305
Aqua Green Metallic V306
Lime V307 (early frog green?)

They show 7 paint mfg.codes.

PM me if you need the page faxed.

quote:

Originally posted by Pantera 4134:
Adams,
Check the factory parts catalog page 10. They list 3 greens:

Medium Green V305
Aqua Green Metallic V306
Lime V307 (early frog green?)

They show 7 paint mfg.codes.

PM me if you need the page faxed.

This is the most incredible forum. I'm overcome with thanks. My sweet wife and I walked to get the world's best fish taco, have a Margarita. I come home to briefly check if any one has responded - wow. Beyond appreciative.

Let's see - I coulda bought a car repainted 27 times, but I didn't. I bought original, so that's a point worth remaking to the Insurance Company and my occasionally-resident psyche.

Next, I'll get a quote for the full repaint, send to the Ins co and then see what kind of fist fight erupts. Probably meet in the middle.

My car must then be Medium Green V305. The painter mentioned Sherwin Williams, even though he more often paints in Glasurit. So if that's the right code, then I'm off to get that matched to the 'real' color as seen through the little spectrascope thingy at the paint store.

I so enjoy my car after the work that was done. The suspension is unreal. Sounds great. Just rolled 25k miles. The right color (for me), the right year, cold air, reasonable upgrades and overall condition. Did I mention I love it?

This'll work out right. The info has been incredible, as has the support. To be honest, I ain't that darn worried about it - I still have a good car and supportive pals to make sure "right" is done. Can that be wrong?