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Pantera #1952 - AMX3 Prototype ?

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cybomancybomanMember
He says in the listing that the chasis was stretched 6" and used as a platform for an AMX-3 prototype. I just read somewhere that AMX-3 repro bodies were in the works and saw a picture of a white shell. When I read it, I got the impression that he was making AMX-3 bodies and used the Pantera to mock it up, although anything is possible!

Michael
A amx/3 (Guest)
Hi Guys,
My name is Tom Dulaney and I am an AMC hobbyist with the fiberglass AMX/3 prototype and the President of Sciabola Inc which is developing the AMX/3 reproductions. My step Dad, Sam Priestly had a Lincoln Mercury Dealership here in San Diego for decades and sold several Panteras when they were new. I am a member of the San Diego Pantera club. I would like to thank Jerry at PI in the city of Orange for his help when I needed some Pantera suspension parts last summer. Feel free to ask any questions you like.
Thanks,
Tom
A amx/3 (Guest)
Thanks Mark,
Here is a recent picture of the first AMX/3 reproduction at Dave Ward's shop in Los Angeles. The chassis is square box tube that will have some round tube on top. We are using an AMC 390 that makes 580 HP and a custom 5 speed Mendeola transaxle. The suspension, steering and brakes are Corvette C4. We are using an AMC steering column, AMC door handles and a few other production pieces.
Tom

Pantera 3rd&LastPantera 3rd&LastMember
Tom,
I grew up In Cleveland, and the Crawford Auto Museum has had a AMX/2(?) since the 70s.
I Loved that design. Way ahead of any domestic style at that time. Truly a shame AMC did not have the $$$ to build it. It probably would have done very well.

My first car was a 68 AMX 390 Go Pkg. While friends had Mustangs/Camaros/Firebirds etc. I killed them with my "Rambler".
Best of luck with the AMX/3.
Jeff
A amx/3 (Guest)
quote:
Crawford Auto Museum

Jeff,
Thanks for posting, it is always good to hear from an fellow AMC fan. I have several AMX's and Javelins, used to have a lot more, but have been selling them off to finance this project with investors too. Is the AMX/2 still at the Crawford? I called over there and left a message. I know there is an AMX/2 display car in a private collection in Canada, but there were supposed to have been 2. I try to keep my website www.amx390.com up to date and accurate on the AMX/2 and AMX/3 I am the unofficial registry, since all the other websites on the subject are out of date. Here's another shot of the recent progress on the front end. Thanks again Jeff,
Tom
A amx/3 (Guest)
How about some more press, August 2008, Kit car Builder page 39

Your link is to a picture of one of the AMX1 protoypes, there are several of those, at least 3, very nice piece of AMC history. Yes, I have the one and only fiberglass AMX/3 prototype. There were 6 built later in Italy out of steel, still very exclusive club, replicas will be most welcome by the AMC hobby. This was our halo car.
Tom
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A amx/3 (Guest)
Is this the right area for me to keep posting to? Admin , feel free to move this threat if you like.
Tom


Wow,
What a day, it has been just over 1 month since we brought Dave Ward to fiberglass reproduction AMX/3 body and he is just flying. Lots of progress happening very quickly and the quality is superb. Dave has so much experience with the Big Red Camaro and other race cars that he is known for over engineering and building strength beyond what is required. Thank God, because if my butt ever rolls one of these fancy firecrackers I want to be in a Precision Welding chassis made by Dave Ward. Super strong! As you can see from todays images, the Wilwood pedals are in place, the front left wheel is bolted on and the front tires are 295 in width, on the rear they will be 345. Wow, those are some big meats! I love traction, it's loosing it that scares me, with tires this wide, the end of adhesion will be pretty far away. What can I say, I am not a chassis builder, so observing one of the best in the world in action, is a thrill. The front sway bar you may notice is not a C4, it is a NASCAR thing and you wouldn't understand, or maybe you would? Do I sound pompous and arrogant today? Well I am!
Tom













We may not run a power steering pump, because the front end is so light we might just connect a hose to each end of the fittings and loop it back into itself on the rack to let it keep a little fluid inside as a manual rack and pinion, we'll see. Tim Burton and I had lunch together today as well. I can't express enough how important his contribution is to this project. Tim is performing so many critical jobs to support Dave's work. Not to mention all the pictures he takes, thanks Tim. Thanks Dave. Thanks Richard Teague. Thanks investors.
Your fan,
Tom Dulaney
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A amx/3 (Guest)
Jeff and Mark,
Thanks for the encouragement and support. I am obsessed with this project, the rest of the world has turned to grey with a low volume compared to the bright light and beating drum of the AMX/3 reproduction.

Dave Ward is doing a great job on using the 1970 AMC steering column.


Look at how nicely the AMC column is integrated to connect with the Corvette C4 steering rack.
Tom
A amx/3 (Guest)
Brooke,
Me too, I am eagar to see the back end completed, then it will really look like a car. The Mendeola transaxle we are using is only the second one to leave the factory, so there is a little bit of fabrication and R&D going into this.

Jeff,
I wanted to give the interior a look similar to the 6 steel Italian made AMX/3's from 1970, and they used a regular production AMC steering column.

Thanks,
Tom
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Tom,
I saw this car at the AMC nats in Denver last year. The rumor was the owner was going to finish it into a working car instead of the "pusher".
As you can see they even have pantera wheels on it.

I saw the Yellow AMX/3 also in person at a show at Amelia Island FL about 9 years ago. They are a very interesting car for sure.

Which brings me to my next question, are you considering making a billet 17 or 18 inch reproduction of the original AMX/3 wheels?
I read where the car was going to have HRE's on it and was wondering if it was temporary.

The Pantera guys have had billet reproductions for years and they are very popular. That way everybody can run modern rubber but keep the original styling.

The fab looks very cool, keep up the good work!

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1973ufo1973ufoTeam Pantera Participant at Sandhills Open Road Race - August 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, & 2013
Tom,
That looks like a hell of an undertaking - always have wanted to build a car from the ground up! Your chassis builder is an artist for sure. Figured that out pretty quick when you said he was involved in the buildup of Big Red! I remember reading about that car & it's showing at the Silver State ORR a few years ago - AWSOME! Keep the pixs of you project coming.
A amx/3 (Guest)
Brooke,
Thanks for posting the picture. Yes, the Italian made AMX/3's used a Campagnolo wheel, just a defferent style than the Pantera. That's why I bought those wheels for the Paneta chassis that you saw in Denver. The AMO show was a lot of fun and we got a great parking spot next to Shirley Shayhans "Drag-On-Lady", very cool. People can run whatever wheel they like, but the new chassis has a Chevy bolt pattern now due to the Corvette C4 parts we are using for suspension, steering and brakes. I sold the Pantera chassis and those wheels, it was cool for the show though.
1973UFO,
We are very fortunate to have Dave Ward building our chassis, I will keep the pictures coming.
Thanks for the support guys, your comments keep me motivated and on target.
Tom
A amx/3 (Guest)







As you can see from these recent pictures, Dave Ward has added a more developed front clip, like the rear, it is removable in case of an accident, it can be replaced separately. The halo hoop roll cage above the driver has taken shape, as well as some other more subtle details. Sorry for the delay in posting the chassis update pictures. I know there are those of you, like myself, that have become addicted to seeing this project progress. My good friend Tim Burton who lives near Dave Ward's shop in San Bernadino, was taking pictures of the chassis on a regular basis and e-mailing them to me in San Diego for this website. However, Tim, his wife Shirl and son Cole recently moved to Colorado. Thanks Tim for all the pictures you took, Happy Holidays. So I have not driven up to San Bernadino in a while to take pictures, I have been driving south to Mendeola and Meziere to work on some of the custom parts we need. Thankfully Dave Ward got his digital camera going and e-mailed these pictures today. Dave told me on the phone yesterday that he will be mounting the radiator next, the fuel cell area is completed, it is just not pictured here.

Here is an update on the Mendeola and Meziere custom pieces.

Mike Mendeola now has the correct welding rod for adapting the Porsche 930 Turbo CV bearing assembly into the aluminum C4 Corvette upright, this will allow us to use CV's instead of half shafts, a very important piece to be able to set the chassis on the ground on it's 4 wheels and tires. Mike Mendeola will then make the custom bellhousing, so we know the exact distance between the AMC 390 V-8 engine and SDR 5 speed transaxle. The transaxle mounts are completed on the chassis, but there are no engine mounts until we have the bellhousing.

www.mendeolatransaxles.com
Clearance is very tight between the engine and the rear bulkhead so we will be running a WP127 plate on the front of the engine with two fittings and hoses to a 300 series remote pump off to the side, where there is more room. These electric water pumps flow 55 gpm, so we will have plenty of cooling. The Meziere family will be supplying our starter as well as the water pump.

www.meziere.com

Tom Dulaney
President
Sciabola Inc
A amx/3 (Guest)
quote:
new chassis h

Brooke,
The goal is for me to bring the chassis home by the end of the year, we'll see. There are a couple of custom pieces we need to get it on 4 wheels and then to install the drive train. The first quarter of next year should be pretty interesting, I am planning on taking it to 3 shows, Knott's Berry Farm Kit Car show, West Coast AMC Show at the NHRA Museum at Pamona and the AMO International Show in St. Louis. The last one in St. Louis is the big one for me, in July. It would be great to do donuts in the parking lot with red paint on the body.
Tom
A amx/3 (Guest)
Yesterday I was at Mike Mendeolas shop in Chula Vista picking up parts, today I went to Dave Ward's chassis shop in Fontana to drop them off.

We stretched the body 2 inches for more legroom. Bizzarrini did the same thing in Italy in 1970 when AMC sent him the molds from the original prototype, since we are also working with the original prototype we did the same thing.


Dave made two panels for the bottom of the chassis that will be attached later.


Mike Mendeola machined a custom bellhousing that will allow us to use the AMC V-8 engine with the Mendeola SRD five speed.
Mike also made custom axle stubs that allow us to use CV's for the SDR 5 speed transaxle instead of the stock half shafts that the C4 Corvette normally uses. Mike made a fixture that will allow this conversion to be done much quicker in the future.
These two parts took quite a while to make, because they required some R&D. Now that the process has been established and some new tooling has been developed, we can get these with a much quicker turn around time.






A amx/3 (Guest)
Husker,
That was the number one question by far, what will it weigh? I don't know, the steel is .090 mild steel and it may be between 2700-3000 lbs. I am not worried about the weight, the chassis was built by Dave Ward who built the Big Red Camaro and Big Red weighs close to 3500 lbs, but with 1,000 HP it still goes 222 MPH. Safety is most important to me, with enough HP the weight will move. The AMX/3 wheelbase is 105".
Thanks,
Tom
A amx/3 (Guest)








The 2009 SoCalAMX 3rd annual "All AMC Car Show" at the NHRA Museum in Pamona California on May 30th, 2009 was a blast. This is the best AMC event in Southern California all year. Congratulations to all the winners. Thanks to Mark Melvin and his crew for putting on this super cool event.
Tom
panteradougpanteradougMember
I followed the AMX3 long before the Pantera.

At the time in the US the AMX was the only mid-engine car being "leaked" to the public. No one outside of Ford knew what the Pantera looked like and if I recall correctly, it had no name yet, only a code number designation.

Calling the AMX3 the superior car, may in fact be true, but in retrospect is just sour grapes.

Ford held the $10,000 line for a reason. The AMX3 cost analization by them internally, certainly fits into the story of what happened.

The problem was that AMC was virtually bankrupt at the time and the AMX3 was a last desperate stab at making a miracle comeback.

Personally I was ready for it, but not at $12,000 or even $10,000.

Back in '73, I filled out a mail in free Pantera brochure offer and as a result got the "yellow" brochure in the mail from Ford.

In addition I got a call from "Park Lincoln-Mercury" in Yonkers, NY, and got an offer over the phone of $5,100, for a new Pantera with a trade of my '68 Shelby for a new white Pantera.

I was in my senior year of college and concentrating on graduating and keeping out of the draft so that never happened for me.

Timing I'm afraid is everything?

Here are some pictures from one of the AMX3's taken at a Cobra Club meeting in MI back in '74.

They are from Jeff Burgy. Don't know which car this one is, but it certainly is not an aberration. Look at the hair stiles. Yikes.


I guess we all have stories to tell. For me I sometimes I wonder if they really ever happened or I just imagined it all?

Ask me about Jim Webb calling me and wanting me to buy his 427 Cobra. One of two with the dual Paxtons. His and Cosby's.

My wife tells me to stop the BS. I tell her it isn't BS. I had to pick between her and that car? Sometimes she still believes me? Cool

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panteradougpanteradougMember
another...

...probably the Patera of Dr.Jodar, Bruce Jodar's father, sitting there.

Bruce Jodar was the original organizer of the original Cobra Club which was independent of the Shelby Owner's Association and later was absorbed into the the original SAAC, or Shelby American Automibile Club, organized by Rick Kopec and Ken Eber.

I went to a Cobra Club meeting in Sparta, NJ, in '75 where he came in from MI, in the car.

He was wearing a Dr.'s gown with a name tag of Jodar on it.

The story was that he made the drive in 8 hours from Grosse Point Shores, MI. That is a subburb of Detroit.

Now I can tell you that I have made that drive straight across Rt.80 several times and the best that I could do was 16 hours.

We figure he AVERAGED something like 100 to 110...AVERAGED, to do it in that time.

The significance of the doctors identity was Bruce was going to say he was his father, who was a heart surgeon as I remember, and he was on an emergency call, if he was pulled over for speeding.

This was before photo radar was put in on 80 in Ohio, and the Police were issued an edict of not to pursue over 85mph...and the CANNONBALL WAS REAL, not a pipe dream.

Wince and frown all you want to. Sometimes the background stories on this stuff are more entertaining then the newspaper clipping ever was.

The stories can be so stupid that you just can't make this stuff up? Big Grin

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panteradougpanteradougMember
It really was the little, too late thing for AMC.

Penske-Donahue was tearing up Trans-Am in the Javalin but little attention to it kind of emphasizes the "win on Sunday, buy on Monday" feeling that the auto makers had didn't really mean anything at all.

AMC was just the "bastard" of the industry in the general public's eyes and that image was difficult to overcome in such a small period of time.

How many of the AMX3's could they really sell?

I KNOW that if you talk to the "bean counters" at Ford, they actually have a number in dollars at what the LOSS per car was on each and every Pantera sold.

Much like the Boss 429's, you can't actually make a profit on low production cars.

The newest Ford GT's are the same story. These cars were made to PROVE to the automotive world that they can make them, and that's all that they are about now...or then.

Incidentally...great article...thanks for posting.
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky:
Thanks, Doug -

What would be the better deal now, the Shelby, or a new $5100 Pantera?

Regards -

Chuck


...well, I still have the Shelby...and my Pantera is red? Missed the oportunities for a Cobra and the Mangusta is still illusive. Paid a little more then $5100 for the P, but a lot less for the Shelby. Such is fate. Go figure? Wink
Last edited by panteradoug
panteradougpanteradougMember
The younger guys wince when the older guys start telling stories a little?

It helps if you have some pictures to go along with it.

The 68 Shelby went out and found a kennel mate, a 67 GT500.

The Pantera needs a Mangusta to keep it company.

Got a couple of stories on the ones that got away.

Well actually more like I think I got close to them but that's like saying that the Super model was flirting with me. The reality was that her face was probably twitching in fear that I would approach her? roll on floor

Best to see the glass half full right?
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