Pantera #7206 - GTS

quote:

Originally posted by RobertVegas:

quote:

Originally posted by four walling:
Since Panteras are supposed to be featured in the new Fast and Furious movie, perhaps there will be more public awareness forthcoming.

Wait...what?

I picked up the info here. Look at the topics that have "sacrificial Panteras" as the subject.

http://list.realbig.com/piperm...l/subject.html#start

...and maybe a trailer is coming soon?

http://fast-and-furious-5-movi...fast-five-movie.html

David B,

To answer your question, the type of Pantera owner I plan to be would be a combination of what you said in #2,#3, and #4 in your post.

My future Pantera will always be garaged when I'm not driving it and never driven on rainy days. I plan to drive the car 5000 miles or more per year. I hope to find a Pantera that has already been substantially upgraded mechanically for reliability. My dream Pantera would be a GT5-S that has been built to sound loud and mean so when I drive off my neighbors windows would rattle. (I say a little harmless mischief is a good thing.)

A couple of years back I went to P.I. Motorsports to look at black Grp4 tribute with a 427 hammer engine. They fired the car up for me. Wow that car sounded absolutely ferocious, it was almost frightening. It would be great to find a GT5-S with a 427 hammer or something like that. But if not, I'll buy the nicest car I can find and possibly upgrade the motor eventually. Dave Adler told me although the 427 hammer engine pushes 600 hp, the engine is quite tractable and can be street driven no problem.

My goal would be to be the best caretaker of a Pantera that I could possbily be. Eventually when I sell, I want the future owner to enjoy the car as much as I did.

David

More food for thought regarding your monster motor... (I'm bored and stuck in an airport...)

Panteras sometimes get a bad rap for being unreliable. The stock 351C is an extremely reliable engine in its original, factory format. People aren't content with 300hp, and begin experimenting. And that's where things start to go awry.

The Ford factory built millions of motors with parts that were engineered to go together, with extensive testing. YOur local speed shop may have built a hundred, max, with the same configuration. You are forging your own path and you have to know that.

I'm convinced that a lot of engine problems come from people who didn't select parts that play well together, or didn't optimize the overall system, or they strayed too far from the main path. The performed a certain amount of experimentation, and some experiments turn out well and some don't.

Talk to owners of the 427 hammer before buying it, and talk to owners of any speed shop before spending your money there. There are lots of reliable, high output motors out there. There are also some sad stories.

When I had my motor rebuilt, I had Dan Jones specify every component, and I'm thrilled. Seek out someone you trust and let them tell you what you should and should not aim for.

I guess my point is that a stock, 300hp engine is going to be dead reliable. The further you stray from stock configuration, the more likely you could have problems if you aren't careful. (this isn't a warning away from radical engines, just make sure you know what you are getting into)

Let's see... where's the bar in here?

I don't want to contradict anyone, but after much review of the options, I went ahead with a stroker rebuild. That was 10 years ago.

In the 10 years since, I have added lot of 20/50 Mobil 1, but all I've replaced was a carb power valve, spark plugs and plug wires. That's it - over 10 years!

And I drive my car everywhere. 522 HP, 510 ft lbs of torque and I put the hammer down wherever and whenever. I take this beast downtown in traffic and on 1000 mi road trips. It has never overheated. Never failed to start. Never broke down. Absolutely bulletproof (...looking for some wood to knock on).

The 351 block is what makes a Pantera. Just find a reputable builder. Have others verify the specs of the planned build. There's lots of info and qualified experts here.

BTW, all my specs are detailed on my website below.

When the time comes to rebuild my engine, I will probably go with a stroker as well, and will search out those that are happy with their engines to shamelessly copy what they have done. I've heard that you are happy, David, so when that day comes (hopefully in the rather distant future!) I may come looking to see what you've done.

I guess that over the years we've all heard "The Pantera isn't reliable", and when we investigate a little bit we find that the owner strayed far from the original formula, didn't do his homework, and his experiment was less than satisfactory.

By the way - wandering around somewhat aimlessly from subject to subject, another data point for what a Pavesi targa may be worth...

Here's a picture from 1998 or 1999 of me sitting in Roland Jaekel's Pavesi convesion GTS. It was for sale back then for $30,000 USD. The engine was nothing special and smoked a little, if I remember correctly, but the engine is the least of the issues... the car itself was rust-free and was one of the 14 (14? 8? I forget) targas built.

I was sorely tempted as I thought it was priced low based on the rarity of the targas. I also thought it would be cool to have a targa Pantera, but I was already beginning to think of buying a GT5-S, so I passed.

Roland later bought the last set of factory GT5-S panels and converted it to a 5-S because he couldn't find any takers at the time despite a rather attractive price.

Last year Roland had a rather high speed crash with it and I don't know its whereabouts, or if the car was scrapped.

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie McCall:
Last year Roland had a rather high speed crash with it and I don't know its whereabouts, or if the car was scrapped.

I thought Roland sold that car a couple of years ago and bought an Si?

That car was originally a '75 GTS and was used by Pavesi as the prototype for the targa conversion.

Michael

No, as far as I know he never had an Si.

His GT5-S conversion had an SI spoiler thingie at the base of the windshield so perhaps that's what you are thinking of?

He now has a Guara, although I don't remember if he bought it before or after crashing the targa, but the targa was apparently rather comprehensively destroyed. :-(

Charlie,

Are there any pictures of it crashed?

(I am truly saddened by this news.)

Michael

Michael -
I don't believe there are any photos. At least I've never seen any.

What I think I remember is that the passengers were ok, but the car was not. I imagine we'll see Roland in 6 weeks time at Le Mans Classic and I'll ask him.

It's funny - I only know of 2 Pavesi targas - yours and his, so I don't know what ever happened to the rest.

I also know of (and have photos of) 2 Pantera SI targas, although I don't know if Pavesi converted those cars as well.

One belongs to Franz Krump, and the other has a total of 20km on the odometer (or something like that), and still has the plastic on the doors!!

I wonder where the other cars are?