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Happy Holidays all!

After purchasing my current Pantera back in June, I have been trying to gain ownership access of the car on Prova Mo. I have followed Chuck's instructions for changing ownership by e-mailing ([1]ImageProcessor at DeTomasoRegistry.org) pictures including one of the vin. If I understand this process, it is supposed to be automated entry by his site. It has not worked after 2 attempts. I also e-mailed Chuck at 2 different e-mail addresses (webmaster at provamo.com/ detomasoregistery at gmail.com) with no reply.
In years past I had no problem getting him to reply to my e-mails. The site shows daily updates, so I do not know why my attempts have failed. Is Chuck still handling Prova Mo? Any other way to get in contact with him?

Thanks. Jeff

Last edited by George P
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The whole De Tomaso world runs on a string and a prayer.

This forum and the registry are notoriously neglected. I say this with love, George of the forum and Chuck of the registry are providing a valuable service. Both are older gentlemen with other commitments and I do not expect anything more of them than what they already do.

I believe both the forum and the registry are one missed hosting payment (or bad health event) away from slipping off the internet forever. Both go months at a time without attention or maintenance.

I often think about setting up an automated backup, which would scrape the forum and registry each night and archive any new data. Of course, life gets in the way and I have not gotten around to setting this up.

Try hitting up a guy on Facebook named Michale Shortt. He publishes a competing registry (Pantera only, no other De To cars). He may have info about your car.

Note on the daily registry updates- there are some helpers who process entries which is why you are seeing updates but not hearing from Chuck.

Agreed, George and Chuck are great unsung heroes of the DeTomaso community. My biggest fear not as much for myself, but future owners is that there may not be a plan in place for Prova Mo after Chuck. It would be criminal to see all of the countless hours of Chuck's hard work be lost forever. I would hope that either PI or POCA be the inheritor of this wealth of information.

As for the daily updates by his helpers, I would hope they would get to them in 6 months. But maybe they are just behind?

Last edited by Pantera 3rd&Last

POCA is attempting to create their own registry and POCA members were asked to complete an Excel file earlier this year to supply all the info on a member's car.  Unfortunately, many on this forum or P owners in general are NOT POCA members.  Chuck was approached by POCA to take over his site and make it there's.  Chuck did not accept the offer.  Bill VanNess created a registry about 15 years ago and published it in paperback.  Again, 15 year old data but still useful.  The Shelby Cobra guys have a very active registry which is ACTIVELY managed by Ned Scudder.  But again, he is a one-man band.  The right place for this data to reside is POCA.  But requiring membership in an organization that for the most part puts its entire focus on holding a "fun rally" in Las Vegas isn't a way to attract / maintain long-term membership or promote the marque.  As for the fate of Chuck's site, only time will tell.  

Just a reminder that there is also a registry for 9000 series Maggiora and Embo carrozzeria Panteras. It has been endorsed by the UK De Tomaso Drivers Club, Svenska DeTomaso Klubben and POCA. The index is posted on the members-only side of the POCA web site, and the raw data will be amalgamated into the planned POCA registry. The current 9000 series registry has 429 entries, and well over 10,000 photos along with whatever factory documents I am able to find (without having to buy them) . There were 604 Panteras built in the 9000 series, meaning the registry is 71%  complete. I have also started gathering what little information there is on the handful of 8000 series cars.

I agree that the privateer registries should ultimately go to POCA, and I hope Chuck has made the appropriate provisions in his will for this. However, for maximum credibility and utility, a De Tomaso Registry should be an international partnership between the various national clubs. Let's hope the POCA registry becomes the foundation and catalyst for that.

If you own a post-Ford 1976 or newer Pantera (eg. GTS, GT5, GT5-S, 90 Si) and have not sent me your information, please do so. If you come across any factory records, ads for sale, etc pertaining to these late model cars, please me electronic copies or links whether they pertain to your car or not. If you come across 8 or 9000 series cars at car shows or other events, please send photos, the VIN and contact info for the owner if possible.

I can be reached at peterhavlik[at]me.com

Thanks!

Last edited by peterh

I agree that a successful registry must be advertised, and available to everyone, and not just POCA members to get traction.  

It would be great if POCA officially reached out here to talk up their new registry project, and on the email mailing list, and on the major Facebook pages to try and get maximum participation from owners.

Additionally, incorporating the Bill Van Ed’s registry, and making a deal with ProvaMo to archive and incorporate that information is a key to obtaining “critical mass” on this activity.



Just as an aside, what do people think a registry is worth?  How do you value it?  

Let’s take ProvaMo, for example…..  Let’s guess ProvaMo has info on 5000 cars*…  and let’s guess that the owner has put 800 hours a year into development of the registry over 15 years (probably longer).


(* The registry page says over 5000 cars are tracked…)

To the owner it would seem quite valuable.

Additionally, it has a winning formula (which is how it got so many people to contribute…  to get access, you have to contribute).

I agree that to maintain maximum value of the cars, a comprehensive registry is a key element.

Last edited by rocky

So you think the gathering, uploading, website creation and financing, all undertaken by POCA, are not worthy of any monetary support, such as a simple membership??

Do you pay an annual fee just for the ability to use a credit card issued to you?

Do you go to your doctor and expect a comprehensive diagnosis for free, because he already possesses the ability to provide that diagnosis due to his education?

Do you ever pay an admission fee when visiting a zoo or museum, and wonder why you need to pay money to see something that someone else has gathered?

do you really think $50 for an annual USA electronic-only POCA membership is beyond your financial reach, but somehow you do have the ability to possess a $75K–$125K car?

Finally, I have bought, restored and sold well over 100 pairs of GRP4  tail lights. Was I wrong to sell them, instead of just giving them away because another owner wanted them, after I had finished the restoration process?

Larry

"(You) doth protest too much, methinks”

Larry - IF POCA had ever actually given a crap about a registry and created one, I would gladly pay for a membership.  After being a PAYING member for 35 years and never seeing them care (because they had Chuck and others to carry their freight) and only focus on their "fun rally" in Las Vegas at some cheesy hotel with crap food and cocktails, I gave up.  POCA is an extinct group run by some aging owners that are unwilling the change nor recognize that everything moved to the web 20 years ago but refuse to not stop publishing a magazine that at best features one of their buddies cars that was restored.  

This Forum is where the value is along with Chuck's site.  

I don't expect anything for nothing.  But for me, POCA provides nothing so I am not willing to pay for it.  I am not sure why you think I am complaining.  We all have worried for that last 2 years what happened to Chuck and how to get new members a login.  I consider that worry, not complaint.  

Everyone is getting older and Chuck, while I still count him as a personal friend is no exception. So  due to his non-communicative style the last few years and in anticipation of the eventual disappearance of his self-financed website- Registry (which has already happened!. New kids won't know there used to be a Mangusta-only website with lots of info, and another Pantera Registry in Europe, that both vanished upon the passing of the owners).

So POCA decided to modernize the ORIGINAL DeTomaso Registry. Which POCA PURCHASED from creator Bill Van Ess, mostly for its historical value. The sole aim is to make things like Registries less of a one-man show and age-proof.

The upcoming POCA Registry is NOT in competition with Chuck's creation and will be less inclusive in its details. It's also only temporarily being run by POCA. Like the original POCA-sponsored DeTomaso Forums, POCA will turn this creation over to others to manage, once it's self-sufficient.

Once the new Registry is up and running- anticipated for late 2023- it will be turned over to the also-new IDOC (International DeTomaso Organization of Car Clubs). This is a world-wide group associated with the new DeTomaso company and will be jointly managed by the many independent Pantera clubs across the world, not just in America.

The new Registry's rules and operation will be left up to the various clubs involved: British, Swedish, Canada, the U.S etc. Given the independent nature of DeTomaso owners and throwing into the mix multiple languages, this should make for "interesting times". Hope I live long enough to see it happen.

I pay membership for POCA, although I live in Belgium, Europe.
So I do not get all the advantages that I would get if I lived in US. That being said, I find there is enough information for me on the site to pay the membership.

I am very sad that Chuck is not responsive whatever the reason might be. I helped him with bringing new, to the Registry, cars. I had pleasure in finding that some Pantera's had changed significantly over the years and that we could match it with a unknown in the Registry.

I will keep, if they let me, helping POCA with a Registry. Probably there will be some information about the cars available for non-POCA members but I can understand the need to gather funds. A club costs money, even if everyone is a free volunteer.

My humble opinion!

Merry Christmas, Jochen

Bosswrench has summarized the registry context very well, but I would like to add a couple of points.

First, a couple of people above have expressed frustration with the POCA registry (and the index to my 9000 series registry) being available only to POCA members. This is done out of necessity because there are copyright issues as well as protection of privacy considerations. In addition to containing intellectual property with ownership that cannot be traced and for which permissions cannot be obtained, the registry also contains personal and private information about owners, and if it were to be made public I can tell you for a fact that many owners would not cooperate. There has to be some middle ground, which I think POCA has identified correctly. By keeping the data available to members only, it serves to deter fraudsters from getting access and thereby addresses the concerns of many of the contributors. To make his registry publicly available, you will note that Chuck posts only photos and sale advertisements on ProvaMo, not names, locations or other data that are required for a full registry. He has this data, but cannot publish it.

Second, there is the issue of the sheer quantity of data. I long ago lost track of how many gigabytes the 9000 series registry files alone take up. I now have 489 of the 604 late model Panteras in it, with over 20,000 associated photos. To sift through all this data and prepare extracts and summaries suitable for posting on a web site would take months, if not years, of full time work, which is just not going to happen with volunteers.

In short, I would counsel some temperance when criticizing POCA on this issue. A more constructive thing to do would be to volunteer to help create the truly international De Tomaso Registry we would all like to see. In the many decades they have been around, not one of the many De Tomaso clubs around the world that I work with thought to do this, but POCA stepped up and is taking the initiative, and I personally applaud them for it.

Last edited by peterh

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