Rear Suspension Rebuild

Swen,

The spherical sway bar mounts are a must have.

If you want to preserve the road islation of your suspension I advise installation of new oem style rubber bushings. I understand this is expensive and that's why most people opt for poly bushings, but poly transmits both road noise and road surface (harshness) into the chassis. Especially sharp edged bumps, that sort of thing.

I'm no expert on the springs, but 450/550 sounds about right. With modern gas shocks the ride will end up being quite compliant. The 350/600 you have now soundslike your ride is currently imbalanced, stiff in the rear, soft up front.

I would rebuild the rear spindles (stub axle bearings?) if they've never been done and there's money in the budget OR if they show signs of needing it. It's expensive, but a set of billet axles are very well worth the money in correcting the Panteras rear bearing problem and insuring nothing is going to break on the track.

If you're not referring to the rear axle bearings but rather to the lower pivot of the rear upright, if it's oem, it will probably need replacement.

You need adjustable upper rear control arms only if the camber adjustment is way off, it will depend upon the condition of your chassis back there. An adjustable spreader bar may be adequate. I say wait until the wide tires are on & the alignment is checked before you spend the money. No rush to do it all at once is there?

Your friend on the DTBB, George

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SwenDog:
I'm ready to tackle my rear suspension this winter on my '74 and would like some input. The front A-Arm bushings were replaced by the previous owner with polyurethane and zerk fittings.

THIS IS GOOD.

1. Are the spring rates on the Aldans OK or should I go 450/550? (or some other combination)

I WENT WITH 550/650. IT'S STIFF DRIVING DOWN NORMAL ROADS, BUT WHEN I AM HARD ON IT, IT DOESN'T FLEX AS MUCH AND STAYS A LOT MORE LEVEL THROUGH HARD CORNERING.

2. Assume I should go with poly A-Arm bushings and zerk fittings for the rear.

YES....IT COMPLETES WHAT YOU STARTED WITH THE FRONTS.

3. Since I plan to go to 17" rubber (335) in the rear, should I consider extended upper A-Arms or are the stock uppers OK?

YES, IF THEY ARE ADJUSTABLE FOR CAMBER. THIS IS DONE BY ROTATING THE TOP OF THE A ARM EXTENSION IN OR OUT. OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE ADDING WASHERS TO THE INSIDE OF THE FRAME AREA THAT THEY MOUNT TO. IF THEY ARE POSITIVE, YOU WILL HAVE NOWHERE TO GO. I AM RUNNING 335/35'S IN THE REAR. I WAS GETTING SOME INSIDE WEAR. I PULLED THE WHEEL, BACKED OUT THE ADJUSTABLE A-ARM 1/2 TURN AND AM GETTING EVEN WARE THROUGHOUT THE REARS. THIS ALONE PUTS A BETTER FOOT PRINT ON THE REAR TRACTION NOT TO MENTION BETTER TIRE WARE.

4. Are the spherical swaybar mounts really worth the extra $100/pr?

ABSOLUTELY.

5. What about the rear spindles? Again, an additional $180. Is it money well-spent while I have everything apart?

YES.

I've read the numerous articles on A-Arm bushing removal. Is it worth the $300 (at least one of the vendors wants for labor only) to remove 8 bushings and install 8 new ones?

IF THEY NEED TO BE DONE, DO THEM RIGHT. THIS IS NOT AN EASY TASK, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IF YOUR SHOWING CRACKS OR SIGNS OF UNEVEN WARE. THIS WILL, ALSO BE CORRECTED BY THE RIGHT SPRING RATES AND ADJUSTABLE A-ARMS FOR THE MOST PART FOR THE FUTURE ONCE DONE, RESULTING IN LESS WARE, EVEN WARE, BETTER HANDLING AND MORE CONTROL.

I do understand that once the shocks are initially dialed-in that I should bring it in to a shop and have it corner-weighted. I have a shop near me that has done this on Pantera's.

BALANCE IS IMPORTANT. THE WEIGHT BI-ANCE SETS UP YOUR ABILITY TO ENTER FAST AND EXIT HARD. ANYTHING LESS IS PANIC CONTROL AFTER THE FACT.

Anything else?

THE 3/4" SWAY BAR IS GOOD THING. IS IT SOLID OR HOLLOW ?

ALSO, HOW DO YOU HAVE YOU WHEEL HOUSING SPREADER SUPPORT BAR SET ? IS IT PUSHING AGAINST THE INSIDE FENDER WELLS ON BOTH SIDES OR JUST SITTING IN THE CENTERING PREDRILLED HOLES ? IN ORDER FOR THIS TO WORK CORRECTLY, THE MOUNTING HOLES SHOULD BE DRILLED OUT ENOUGH TO ALLOW CONTACT WITH EACH END OF THE WHEEL HOUSING TO ACTUALLY GIVE YOU THE SUPPORT YOU NEED TO EACH WHEEL HOUSING. THIS AGAIN, BALANCE AND SUPPORT TO EACH WHEEL.

My experience with lowered Alden shocks and new 17s with wide tires is that you definately need the adjustable upper a-arms. I got mine from Precision Performance. They were the same arms as another dealer sells...for a lot less.
I did my own bushings. George is right, the poly bushings are harsh riding, but I'm stuck with them for now. Replacing them is a pain. You need a body grinder to remove a small lip around the outside edge of each bushing cup, without grinding into the edge of the bushing "barrel". Then you need an acetyline torch to fry the origninal bushings enough to drive the center bolt sleave out (along with the smoking remainder of the bushing). Then you need a 1/2 inch drive socket that is big enough to drive out the metal cup (that you just ground one edge off) but small enough to slide through the bushing barrel. Then you need to drill for the new grease zirk (which requires a special tap). Installing the new bushings is simple.
I was cautioned by a couple of experts not to try and press any of this out. The a-arms are pretty fragile and can be bent easily.
I have a lot of odd tools around, so I had everything I needed, but this could be a problem for someone with a limited tool selection.
If you get the adjustable upper a-arms, they come with new bushings, so half the job is done. You can deduct half the cost of bushing removal and apply it to the a-arm cost.
Later, Mooso.

Swendog ??

Have you a local boy who is capable of rebuilding the axle assembly ?? I have to do mine also. Is there anywhere we can get a set of specs ??

Ron

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. (George): I have heard that the stock bushings provide a better ride, but since I have the poly bushings up front, shouldn't I go with the poly in the rear? Does it matter? I have an adjustable after-market spreader bar and my tires show no signs of unerven wear, but then again, I only have about 3000 miles on them. I would certainly like to save the $600 for the adjustable upper A-Arms, but I don't want to go thru ripping the rear apart again a year later (after I get the the 17" wheels). Then again, I'm sure there are plenty of folks out there with 335-17's out back with stock upper A-arms and no camber problems.

(Mooso): How much were the adjustable A-Arms from Precision ProFormance (including bushings-poly I assume)

(Coz): The swaybar is solid and I ahve room for adustment of my rear spreader bar.

Swen

quote:

Originally posted by SwenDog:
(George): I have heard that the stock bushings provide a better ride, but since I have the poly bushings up front, shouldn't I go with the poly in the rear? Does it matter? I have an adjustable after-market spreader bar and my tires show no signs of unerven wear, but then again, I only have about 3000 miles on them. I would certainly like to save the $600 for the adjustable upper A-Arms, but I don't want to go thru ripping the rear apart again a year later (after I get the the 17" wheels).
Swen

Swen,

How do you think you'll want the car to eventually ride? On 100% rubber or 100% poly? If the answer is 100% rubber then replace rubber with rubber now. If you opt for 100% poly now, you are not stuck with 100% poly forever. If after going with 100% poly you change your mind and decide to go back to rubber, you will only have wasted the money you spent on the poly bushings and the time you used to install them.

Regarding the adjustable upper control arms, having worked on "other people's" cars a lot in my life, I'm very sensitive about spending "other people's" money. I advise you to hold off spending money on the A arms until you have a reason to do so, in other words, until you run out of camber adjustment with your spreader bar. Installation of the upper rear A arms can be accomplished in a day, without having to completely disassemble the rear suspension. Hopefully when you purchase the control arms the vendor will give you the choice of rubber or poly bushings, if not, find another vendor.

Your friend on the DTBB, George

Swen, my appologies, the upper A-arms came from Collectors Choice (608) 849-9879, not Precision Proformance as I stated.
They were purchased in June of 05 for $500. This was more than $100 less than another vendor. They came with poly bushings installed. These use a "heim" joint rather than a conventional ball joint at the axle carrier. I would think that I will have to replace this heim joint more often than a ball joint.
Mooso.

Pantera East sells poly bushings that slide into the outer metal sleeve of the OEM bushing, so you don't have to remove it.

I used a reciprocating saw to carefully cut the OEM inner sleeves and then pull them out.

I drilled thru the metal of the A-arm and outer sleeve and then the bushing itself so grease from the Zerk would get to both inner and outer surfaces of the polyurethane.

I took my lower upright pivots apart and found them to be in good order, so I just greased them with synthetic grease and reassembled.