Ride height

Looks GREAT Mike!

I don't know what was done to my suspension before I purchased my Pantera but I had Ron McCall inspect it and he said it was one of the best driving Pantera's that he's drivin. You may want to ping him to see if he can provide you some additional info.

Also, my car has rolled front fenders and rides on 205/50-16 (24.1" diameter) and 315/35-17 (25.7" diameter) tires.

Again, your car looks GREAT!

Billy
#3382

a close up...

Mike- Car looks great and stance is perfect.
Ride height on cars with 18s is the same as yours. It is all about the overall diameter of the tire not the wheel diameter.

quote:

Originally posted by Plankton:
Looks GREAT Mike!

I don't know what was done to my suspension before I purchased my Pantera but I had Ron McCall inspect it and he said it was one of the best driving Pantera's that he's drivin. You may want to ping him to see if he can provide you some additional info.

Also, my car has rolled front fenders and rides on 205/50-16 (24.1" diameter) and 315/35-17 (25.7" diameter) tires.

Again, your car looks GREAT!

Billy
#3382

Billy

Thanks for the pictures. Your car is spot on and I expect your tire size is the key to its success.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by EvodIndustries:
Mike- Car looks great and stance is perfect.
Ride height on cars with 18s is the same as yours. It is all about the overall diameter of the tire not the wheel diameter.

Thanks, I think I’m getting there!

I understand about lower profile tires on larger rims to get the same diameter as tires on smaller wheels. But, say you have an 18 X 8 font wheel and you want to run a 245/XXZR18 tire. As a look for available tires that are 245 in the 18” size the lowest profile I see is almost a full inch taller than my 16” tire.

A 245/35 18 is 24.7" tall versus your 24.6" tall.

quote:

Originally posted by EvodIndustries:
A 245/35 18 is 24.7" tall versus your 24.6" tall.

So for every 1” larger wheel size with a given tread width you’re looking at about a reduction of the side wall by 5. 16” = 45, 17” = 40, 18” = 35, 19” = 30 and 20” = 25.

quote:

So for every 1” larger wheel size with a given tread width you’re looking at about a reduction of the side wall by 5. 16” = 45, 17” = 40, 18” = 35, 19” = 30 and 20” = 25.

Pretty much but this is only so because you have selected a tire width that is just shy of 10" wide, so when you take 5% of the width x2 and add it to the diameter you've changed the tire OD by about 1".

I've always found tire size designations to be a bit bizarre. Just so we're all on the same page, tire sizes as xxx/yy/*zz = width in mm/aspect ratio as % of width/*wheel diameter in inches, where * is speed rating. So side wall height is yy times xxx (in mm). So convert this to inches and add twice the side wall height to diameter and you're at tire OD.

As always Mike, your car looks great. As I follow the thread, there is one thing I'm wondering; if you're trying to maintain the same tire OD front and rear, what would wheel size have to do with how low you could set your ride height? With constant OD, in any case, the distance from the center of the wheel to the ground is the same, right?

Also, if you are at 3.5" of ground clearance on the street you're a braver man than me my friend. I have 345/30/ZR19 Rear and 265/35/ZR18 front but have installed GTS flares so have some more room. I don't recall ride height but you can get some big brake rotors inside an 18" front wheel. You can have a look at the linky to my gallery below to get a sense of wheel proportion.

Best Regards,
Kelly

Kelly

As I was crawling around under the car getting my ride height set I was wondering how owners with much larger wheels than mine were able to get a decent right height (low). I’ve never seen a Pantera with 20s so I didn’t realize they would go with a side wall almost twice as short as my 245/45/ZR16s to keep the tire diameter the same.

You think 3.5 is too low for the street? Our roads in the Southeast are pretty smooth.

Mike

quote:

You think 3.5 is too low for the street?.

Hmmm, I should probably measure my car before I speak, but yes, 3.5" seems a little sporty for the street, at least ones I have to take to get to the smooth ones I want to romp on. To a certain extent it sort of depends where on the car you're taking the measurement from but if you were talking front valance or any of the structural subframe....yikes. My chin spoiler in down there but it's flexible and has scars to show for it. If you consider a 200 lb driver and passenger, a little change in road elevation, hard cornering, and a little corresponding shock compression.....seems like it doesn't leave much? I run 550 lb/in springs in rear and 450 in front and still get some compression when I drive hard. -You've got me thinking though. I'll have to measure where my car is sitting when I get home tonight.

quote:

Our roads in the Southeast are pretty smooth

Ahh, you folks from Georgia have the best of everything. -I'm just a farm boy

Take care,
Kelly

Chiming in here, the width of the front tire (of any size) relative to the outside fender lip and the inside tire edge to the inner splash pans will define the max tire width possible. On most '71-75 Panteras, that will be a 245-50 size tire, and even that may require some hammer work on the inner panels- more on the right than the left side since most Panteras are asymmetric, possibly due to an error in the weld jigs at the factory. The rubbing will occur with full-lock turns.If your chosen tire is on a 16" or larger wheel, some flattening of the wiper motor shield may be needed, and pay careful attention to brake line routing- especially on the right. Rubber hoses will rub and get worn thru, and ss-aeroquip will rub and machine the alloy wheel. With larger than 15" wheels and maintaining stock tire O.D, you're replacing rubber with aluminum so the assemblies will be heavier than 50-profile tires on 8" Campys. Plus, stock magnesium is lighter than aftermarket aluminum, increasing wt even more. With a heavier wheel/tire, heavier springs and more shock damping is needed to maintain at least stock handling. Finally, using the spacing for 8" Campys in front on aftermarket wheels is smart 'cause those wheels vastly reduce the tire scrub-radius compared to stock 7" Campys. Note that all this assumes you guys are driving the car in a sporty manner, not just showing it at a park! I remember seeing such a rice-rocket at a show with giant tires and asked how it handled. The owner confessed that the tires were just for show as the front struts actually sat on top of the tires. He had to push it in place 'cause if anyone got in, the weight locked the tire up....

I found the wiper motor shield can be made substantially smaller. I made up a smaller fiberglass model to prevent tire interference.

Kelly,

The lowest spot on my car are the vertical pieces that extend down from the two center sub-frames about mid-way from the back of the car. My front tow eye hooks have a smidge less than 3.75” clearance.


Mike

Hey Mike, I took a few measurements on my car tonight. My rear tires are 27.1” tall and fronts are 25.3”. These are calculated heights but they measure about 1/2" less than that as near as I can tell. Dennis Quella did the body work on my car and when we discussed ride height, I essentially chose the wheel and tire size, asked him to set the rear lower control arms parallel to the ground, have slight down rake to the front of the car, and then hang the flares about the wheels. That’s pretty much how it sits today. My tow hooks are long gone so I wouldn’t know how far they down they were but if you take a look in the picture below:

“A” is the bottom of the rear cross member = 5.25”
“B” is the lowest point on the frame rail = 5”
“C” is the subframe just behind front wheel = 4.5”
“D” is to the lowest point on the valance, about the same for the chin spoiler = 4.25”

If your hooks are lower than your frame rails we may not be talking much difference between our cars but even an 1" can be non-trivial. I do have to be very careful on driveway curbs. I unusually try to get a wheel up first entering and leaving at angles. I have drug the chin spoiler several times on curbs but never tagged anything while driving yet.

-My 2 cents.

Interesting , excluding the tow eye hooks, mine is about the same as yours on the front but the back cross member is 4 1/8”. My back 335 tires are 26.18” or .32” shorter than stock Arrivas, so my tires are lowering the car .16” lower than the stock wheels. With all this I still have ¼” nose down rake measured along the bottom edge of the rocker pinch weld and my lower back A arms are parallel.

Nice lift!

Mike

Forgot to mention, that the front tires are 24.63” or .12” shorter than the stock Arriva. ½ of .12” is not making much difference in height.

Mike

It would be interesting to know the ride height of other forum members cars and their tire sizes.

Mike

Anyone know the ground clearance needed to clear the typical dead possum?


Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Pantera 1887:
Anyone know the ground clearance needed to clear the typical dead possum?


Mike

I believe that you take your typical dead racoon and add about 25mm. If you need a more precise answer, I would suggest that you touch base with your local zoo.

Thanks Kerry! I contacted PETA because they are the experts on dead animals. I made it clear to them that I would never run over a live possum with my Pantera because it’s so darn hard to get the blood and fir off the underside of the car, but I wanted to know how much ground clearance my Pantera would need to clear a dead possum. When I told them the lowest point was less than 3.5” there was a long silence and then kind of a groan. They said the height of a dead possum is dependent on its age and how long it’s been lying on the road in the hot Georgia sun. Apparently they blot up some making them more than 3.5” and then they shrink down in a few days. Other vehicle traffic can impact the height especially 18 wheelers.

Mike

Mike,

There are other things to consider.

Is the typically dead possum in a prone or supine position? If its snout is pointing towards the big dipper you have a bigger issue then if it wasn't. Is it a North American or European possum? What if the subject Pantera has a deep front spoiler that gathers up the possum? If that is the case, the resulting display would not be unlike a Kenworth truck at Christmas time with a cute little teddy bear mounted on the grill.

According to Apple there is an iPhone app for everything and the complete answer to your question is probably just a quick download away.

Lastly, always remember to recycle and leave the earth a better place then you found it.

http://www.buckpeterson.com/im.../books/orccover.JPEG

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pantera 1887:
Kelly

I'm running 17" Campi clones from Wilkinson. When I installed Pantera Performances koni shock/spring units, it lowered the car 3/4 to 1 inch all round, but more importantly the rear lower A arms are parallel to the ground the way the car was designed to be as I have been told.

Ford/DeTomaso would have you make the car perfectly level as measured from the rearmost lower a-arm attach bolts front & rear, to the ground (see Red Owners Manual for spec's). A better setup with less crawling around underneath is to measure from the frontmost horizontal edge of the rocker panels to ground, setting your Pantera such that the front is about 1/2" lower than the rear. The resulting 'rake' improves high-speed handling without the need for a spoiler (up to a point; then regardless, you'll need a spoiler to keep the front wheels on the ground.) Virtually anything you do to the chassis changes wheel alignment, so make as many changes as necessary but do a complete realignment as the last step. Do not be surprised if the two sides are at different heights even if the car is perfectly corner-weight-balanced. Most Panteras have slight twists or distortions to the chassis. This does not necessarily make for a poor handing car as most can be compensated for.

What springs rates do you have? And the what are the spring lenghts? It looks great...

quote:

I’ve never seen a Pantera with 20s so I didn’t realize they would go with a side wall almost twice as short as my 245/45/ZR16s to keep the tire diameter the same.

Here's a pic of George's car (our illustrious host) with 18's and 20's

Hay George, what’s your ground clearance?

Mike