Up for auction from The Mustang Ranch in Golden, Colorado. This 1973 DeTomaso Pantera #THPNNJ05129 had a complete make over about 12 years and 5,000 miles ago. Starting with the motor rebuild by Daly Machine in Omaha Nebraska. 550 HP 388 Stroker 3 3/4 stroke 4.0 bore, Ross 9.75:1 pistons, Crower forged steel rods/ crank. Yates SVO cylinder heads ported/ flowed by Rod Sokolski (design engineer at Edelbrock) Ferrera stainless valves, Engle camshaft, roller rockers, double roller timing assembly, high volume oil pump, wind age tray, 10 quart Canton oil pan, Motorsport damper, aluminum flywheel, Mcleod performance clutch assembly, Edelbrock Victor series single plane intake manifold, MSD ignition/ rev limiter/ timing computer/ distributor/ coil, Stewart high flow Nascar water pump, Bob Blake pre paired 750 double pumper Holley carb, electric fuel pump, Motorsport single wire alternator, starter, Ansa GTS stainless headers/ exhaust and so much more. The transaxel was rebuilt by Woodhouse and has Pantera Performance hydraulic throw out bearing assembly and new drive axles. And the rear wheele housing carriers were upgraded to the tapered roller bearing assemblies. Additional items are 2 JAZ fuel cells, 17" Simmons wheels, 245/40/ZR17- 315/35/ZR17 Dunlop Sp Sport tires, JFZ 4 piston calipers, Coleman rotors, Pantera Performance Tilton Master cylinder/ brake booster, stainless braided brake and gas lines, Koni adjustable shocks, Pantera Performance sway bars/ bushings, Powder coated/ rebuilt upper and lower control arms, upper/ lower ball joints, rebuilt rack, rebuilt peddle assembly, Hall Pantera reinforce frame kit, European tail lights, hood vent kit, upgraded radiator/ fans/ tubes/ hoses/ clamps/ sensors, rebuilt door motors/ wiper/ headlight motors and so much more. There are just to many items to list but you get the idea, not much was left un touched!
The interior had new carpet and re upholstered seats, stereo cassette, gauges, switches, Momo steering wheel, Simpson seat belts and more. All of the gauges work except for the tach. I was told that a wire at the MSD box was not hooked up. The head lights/ drivers- passengers windows go up and down as well as the wiper works. Turn signals, brake lights, horn, heater motor and electric fans all work. All of the ac equipment is under the dash but the new rotary pump was never installed. The motor starts right up no noises, smoke or leaks. The clutch and all forward/ reverse gears engage smoothly. I have had this Pantera up to speed and then some on the highway, the car runs out great! The Body is the original color redone in Blue, striped down to bare metal, epoxie primered and repainted/ wet sanded and polished. There is some small damage on the drivers rocker in the video as well as a couple of chips on the back of the car but for the most part the car is flawless! This car is clean with no rust or collision repair. Further inspection has shown there is no debris in the lower front/ rear control arm towers. I am selling this car for a client of mine and it is one of the most clean and sorted out Pantera's that has come through my shop. The car comes with the fiberglass in cert, new rear tires, ac pump, manuals, tool kit, new deck lid struts and some other miscellaneous stuff. You cannot build this car for what I am asking, not to mention the brain damage building one. I would suggest to have the car tuned and dynoed in your location for maximum performance.
Like I said I am selling this car for a client of mine so please feel free to call and ask as many questions as you like, also know there is no guaranty or warranty on this fun sports car.
Best regards, Rich at TMR 303-931-5412
Be sure to check out this youtube video!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ilpage&v=6VzqEEKxnOQ
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by Rockstar:
Up for auction from The Mustang Ranch in Golden, Colorado. This 1973 DeTomaso Pantera 41,000 miles #THPNNJ05129 had a complete make over about 12 years and 5,000 miles ago. Starting with the motor rebuild by Daly Machine in Omaha Nebraska. 550 HP 388 Stroker 3 3/4 stroke 4.0 bore, Ross 9.75:1 pistons, Crower forged steel rods/ crank. Yates SVO cylinder heads ported/ flowed by Rod Sokolski (design engineer at Edelbrock) Ferrera stainless valves, Engle camshaft, roller rockers, double roller timing assembly, high volume oil pump, wind age tray, 10 quart Canton oil pan, Motorsport damper, aluminum flywheel, Mcleod performance clutch assembly, Edelbrock Victor series single plane intake manifold, MSD ignition/ rev limiter/ timing computer/ distributor/ coil, Stewart high flow Nascar water pump, Bob Blake pre paired 750 double pumper Holley carb, electric fuel pump, Motorsport single wire alternator, starter, Ansa GTS stainless headers/ exhaust and so much more. The transaxel was rebuilt by Woodhouse and has Pantera Performance hydraulic throw out bearing assembly and new drive axles. And the rear wheele housing carriers were upgraded to the tapered roller bearing assemblies. Additional items are 2 JAZ fuel cells, 17" Simmons wheels, 245/40/ZR17- 315/35/ZR17 Dunlop Sp Sport tires, JFZ 4 piston calipers, Coleman rotors, Pantera Performance Tilton Master cylinder/ brake booster, stainless braided brake and gas lines, Koni adjustable shocks, Pantera Performance sway bars/ bushings, Powder coated/ rebuilt upper and lower control arms, upper/ lower ball joints, rebuilt rack, rebuilt peddle assembly, Hall Pantera reinforce frame kit, European tail lights, hood vent kit, upgraded radiator/ fans/ tubes/ hoses/ clamps/ sensors, rebuilt door motors/ wiper/ headlight motors and so much more. There are just to many items to list but you get the idea, not much was left un touched!
The interior had new carpet and re upholstered seats, stereo cassette, gauges, switches, Momo steering wheel, Simpson seat belts and more. All of the gauges work except for the tach. I was told that a wire at the MSD box was not hooked up. The head lights/ drivers- passengers windows go up and down as well as the wiper works. Turn signals, brake lights, horn, heater motor and electric fans all work. All of the ac equipment is under the dash but the new rotary pump was never installed. The motor starts right up no noises, smoke or leaks. The clutch and all forward/ reverse gears engage smoothly. I have had this Pantera up to speed and then some on the highway, the car runs out great! The Body is the original color redone in Blue, striped down to bare metal, epoxie primered and repainted/ wet sanded and polished. There is some small damage on the drivers rocker in the video as well as a couple of chips on the back of the car but for the most part the car is flawless! This car is clean with no rust or collision repair. Further inspection has shown there is no debris in the lower front/ rear control arm towers. I am selling this car for a client of mine and it is one of the most clean and sorted out Pantera's that has come through my shop. The car comes with the fiberglass in cert, new rear tires, ac pump, manuals, tool kit, new deck lid struts and some other miscellaneous stuff. You cannot build this car for what I am asking, not to mention the brain damage building one. I would suggest to have the car tuned and dynoed in your location for maximum performance.
Like I said I am selling this car for a client of mine so please feel free to call and ask as many questions as you like, also know there is no guaranty or warranty on this fun sports car.
Best regards, Rich at TMR 303-931-5412
Be sure to check out this youtube video!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ilpage&v=6VzqEEKxnOQ
I watched the video & a couple of comments/concerns.

At 2:30 of the video, fuel line vip-tied to frame.

At 3:43 of video fluid lines routing under frame stiffener.

At 7:59 of video fuel line from fuel cell lying on top/dangerously close of positive terminal of battery!!!!!!...Mark
quote:
Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
Personally speaking.

If the 550 HP claimed in your ad, cannot be documented nor proven via a dyno printout, then WHY post it as fact?!...Mark


Frankly, even a dyno printout doesn't really prove much. It always troubles me anytime an ad even contains HP claims, regardless of backup documentation. I much prefer to just see a list of the mods and suppliers used. I'll make my own judgement as to power improvement.
I think the problem with this ad is that the HP claim doesn't even pass the sniff test; a seller just blindly posting whatever is on the 'documentation' loses credibility in my mind. Someone selling a specialty car should have some knowledge of the product, that's all.
If you really want to post "data" a 1/4 mile time slip is much more representative of the car's real world HP performance. Of course, the time slip can be forged, as well...caveat emptor, and all that.
It strikes me that more often than not whan a car comes up for sale here there are people willing to jump all over it and find fault.

IMO the "Pantera's for sale" section should be exactly that, a means for forum members to post their car for sale with legitimate responses and requests for more information and contact etc.

It should not be a bunch of virtual tire kickers who have not seen or inspected the car first hand. People wonder why Pantera's don't go up as much in value as other classics, well I would postulate it is in part because Pantera's owners are their own worst enemies, highlighting every fault rather than focusing on the individuality and positive. Many of those comments are often from people whose car hasn't seen the light of day in years.

Julian
Flame suit on
I think there is a fine line- There is a place for keeping ads "honest", and pointing out where there may be misinformation (intentional or not) is part of what this community experience brings.

JK - Agree, too much critical tire kicking isn't helpful. These cars are so individual, unless it is being advertised as a bone stock "surviver" or something, we'll just have to accept the flaws for what they are!
quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
It strikes me that more often than not whan a car comes up for sale here there are people willing to jump all over it and find fault.

IMO the "Pantera's for sale" section should be exactly that, a means for forum members to post their car for sale with legitimate responses and requests for more information and contact etc.

It should not be a bunch of virtual tire kickers who have not seen or inspected the car first hand. People wonder why Pantera's don't go up as much in value as other classics, well I would postulate it is in part because Pantera's owners are their own worst enemies, highlighting every fault rather than focusing on the individuality and positive. Many of those comments are often from people whose car hasn't seen the light of day in years.

Julian
Flame suit on


Excellent comments!
quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
It strikes me that more often than not whan a car comes up for sale here there are people willing to jump all over it and find fault.

IMO the "Pantera's for sale" section should be exactly that, a means for forum members to post their car for sale with legitimate responses and requests for more information and contact etc.

It should not be a bunch of virtual tire kickers who have not seen or inspected the car first hand.

Julian
Flame suit on



AMEN Julian.

Thankfully it's not as frequent on this forum as some others I been on, but I agree that negative comments or observations should not be posted in response to someones ad.

If one is genuinely interested or concerned, the seller should be contacted directly with a Private Message.
quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
It strikes me that more often than not whan a car comes up for sale here there are people willing to jump all over it and find fault.

IMO the "Pantera's for sale" section should be exactly that, a means for forum members to post their car for sale with legitimate responses and requests for more information and contact etc.

It should not be a bunch of virtual tire kickers who have not seen or inspected the car first hand. People wonder why Pantera's don't go up as much in value as other classics, well I would postulate it is in pa People wonder why Pantera's don't go up as much in value as other classics, well I would postulate it is in pa, highlighting every fault rather than focusing on the individuality and positive. Many of those comments are often from people whose car hasn't seen the light of day in years.

Julian
Flame suit on
Posting a car for sale & subsequently attaching a video & Encouraging parties to ..."Check out the video!", is going to illicit comments, both positive & critical.

As far as criticism being in your opinion the causation of ... "People wonder why Pantera's don't go up as much in value as other classics, well I would postulate it is in pa, highlighting every fault rather than focusing on the individuality and positive".

Nothing could be further from the truth, for an example.

The Ferrari Dino was belittled & criticised for decades as being the step child Ferrari & comments about the underpowered 6 cylinder engine, build quality, etc,etc.

Ferrari Dino's now are $400,000.00+++ cars.

The Plymouth Superbird & Dodge Daytona Charger are 2 more examples. Both cars languished on showroom floors, being shunned by the public at large, now trading depending on options up to $500,000.000+++

The 1963 "Split Window" Corvette was criticised for the "Split" & poor driver's visibility & many owners actually cut away the "Split", now those are $100,000.00 cars.

The Lamborghini Countach called a "Space Ship", an "Alien Car", Undrivable, etc,etc,...now the "alien" has landed in the $600,000.000 price Planet.

A more recent example, the Ford GT, another car that received a HUGE amount of negative comments, criticisms & collecting dust on showroom/s floors, ONCE AGAIN those Ford GT's selling NOW for 2+++ TIMES the original MSRP.

I could add additional countless examples, my point/s being Soundly affirmed!

So obviously your observation/s in regards to public criticism being the bane of a cars/Pantera's appreciation has not a single iodium of merit/truth.


In FACT many on this forum as evidenced by their collective numerous posts are in FACT, quite pleased by their Panteras appreciation in value.

I would suggest if you want to own a car that draws no negative criticism, then move to an uninhabited planet, just make sure it's not Mars, as I wouldn't want a Martian complaining about your rim choice & causing your angst...Mark


There has NEVER been a car produced that was devoid of criticism...Mark
as a group of elite people that are privilged to own one of these fine cars, it would seem to unify in betterment of it not tell someone the color,or interior,or wheels dont look goog lets talk about the uniqueness of our cars. dont buy it if you dont like the outside or the inside.try to be thankfull for what you have and what other people want in their cars.
quote:
Originally posted by sonny 4233:
as a group of elite people that are privilged to own one of these fine cars, it would seem to unify in betterment of it not tell someone the color,or interior,or wheels dont look goog lets talk about the uniqueness of our cars. dont buy it if you dont like the outside or the inside.try to be thankfull for what you have and what other people want in their cars.
Sonny; You can't have it both ways.

You specifically asked for comments/inputs as to why your Pantera wasn't selling.

When you received comments about your Pantera not to your liking you took offense.

It's a double edged sword, you CAN'T expect only to hear the positive & be upset upon hearing some negative, you solicited comments, did you falsely presume the comments were solely going to compliment your car?...Mark
quote:
Originally posted by 1973 Pantera:
quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
It strikes me that more often than not whan a car comes up for sale here there are people willing to jump all over it and find fault.

IMO the "Pantera's for sale" section should be exactly that, a means for forum members to post their car for sale with legitimate responses and requests for more information and contact etc.

It should not be a bunch of virtual tire kickers who have not seen or inspected the car first hand.

Julian
Flame suit on



AMEN Julian.

Thankfully it's not as frequent on this forum as some others I been on, but I agree that negative comments or observations should not be posted in response to someones ad.

If one is genuinely interested or concerned, the seller should be contacted directly with a Private Message.
Why are some members so adverse to criticism?!

Criticism can be used as a valuable tool to fix/correct errors/problems & as a result produce a better product for sale.

Did you even watch the video?!...There is a fuel line from the fuel cell precariously close/lying on top of the positive terminal of the battery!!! ( 7:59 of video)

Do you feel that hazardous situation should not be commented on???!!!

I wonder what environment those people that so vehemently fear criticism work in, obviously not the real world!...Mark
quote:
Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
Posting a car for sale & subsequently attaching a video & Encouraging parties to ..."Check out the video!", is going to illicit comments, both positive & critical.

As far as criticism being in your opinion the causation of ... "People wonder why Pantera's don't go up as much in value as other classics, well I would postulate it is in pa, highlighting every fault rather than focusing on the individuality and positive".

Nothing could be further from the truth, for an example.

The Ferrari Dino was belittled & criticised for decades as being the step child Ferrari & comments about the underpowered 6 cylinder engine, build quality, etc,etc.

Ferrari Dino's now are $400,000.00+++ cars.

The Plymouth Superbird & Dodge Daytona Charger are 2 more examples. Both cars languished on showroom floors, being shunned by the public at large, now trading depending on options up to $500,000.000+++

The 1963 "Split Window" Corvette was criticised for the "Split" & poor driver's visibility & many owners actually cut away the "Split", now those are $100,000.00 cars.

The Lamborghini Countach called a "Space Ship", an "Alien Car", Undrivable, etc,etc,...now the "alien" has landed in the $600,000.000 price Planet.

A more recent example, the Ford GT, another car that received a HUGE amount of negative comments, criticisms & collecting dust on showroom/s floors, ONCE AGAIN those Ford GT's selling NOW for 2+++ TIMES the original MSRP.

I could add additional countless examples, my point/s being Soundly affirmed!

So obviously your observation/s in regards to public criticism being the bane of a cars/Pantera's appreciation has not a single iodium of merit/truth.


In FACT many on this forum as evidenced by their collective numerous posts are in FACT, quite pleased by their Panteras appreciation in value.

I would suggest if you want to own a car that draws no negative criticism, then move to an uninhabited planet, just make sure it's not Mars, as I wouldn't want a Martian complaining about your rim choice & causing your angst...Mark


There has NEVER been a car produced that was devoid of criticism...Mark


Talking of planets I don't know on which one posting a video and saying "check it out" reads as "Watch the video and belittle and beride my car in public please".

You make a very valid point (with countless examples) on values of some cars that were not regarded well by collectors for many years. Yes those cars have all overcome that hurdle in what is now a strong collector car market, however Pantera values have not risen to the same occasion. It would be good to see some statistics on comparative price increases over time and I bet the gap widens, Pantera's IMO are still undervalued.

Once again you choose to blow an observation out of proportion, yes there will be critics of every car. I have no issue with people telling me they would have done my cars differently, that is personal taste. What is not tasteful is airing that publicly to a sellers post, if you are in the market and don't like that particular example simply move on or figure your required modifications cost into your negotiation with the seller. The fact is a lot of the people who comment aren't even in the market they just want to knock someone elses vision, that is not what Pantera ownership used to be about. Maybe I'm getting too old and the demographics are changing, that is what happens when the cars remain cheap and any punk can buy one.

Julian
quote:
Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
quote:
Originally posted by 1973 Pantera:
quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
It strikes me that more often than not whan a car comes up for sale here there are people willing to jump all over it and find fault.

IMO the "Pantera's for sale" section should be exactly that, a means for forum members to post their car for sale with legitimate responses and requests for more information and contact etc.

It should not be a bunch of virtual tire kickers who have not seen or inspected the car first hand.

Julian
Flame suit on



AMEN Julian.

Thankfully it's not as frequent on this forum as some others I been on, but I agree that negative comments or observations should not be posted in response to someones ad.

If one is genuinely interested or concerned, the seller should be contacted directly with a Private Message.
Why are some members so adverse to criticism?!

Criticism can be used as a valuable tool to fix/correct errors/problems & as a result produce a better product for sale.

Did you even watch the video?!...There is a fuel line from the fuel cell precariously close/lying on top of the positive terminal of the battery!!! ( 7:59 of video)

Do you feel that hazardous situation should not be commented on???!!!

I wonder what environment those people that so vehemently fear criticism work in, obviously not the real world!...Mark


So a Private Message to the seller, the one person on the planet who could immediately correct any problems, isn't sufficient?

Especially when your "observation" is totally WRONG?

Look closer: the fuel line at 7:59 of the video is lying close to the NEGATIVE terminal, not the positive. The cable is red, but it is actually the ground cable.

The positive battery terminal, which is well away from the fuel line, is well covered/protected by a red plastic cover. You can clearly see the positive cable exiting down thru the chassis from the positive terminal.

Oops! Razzer

As for your ponder: "I wonder what environment those people that so vehemently fear criticism work in, obviously not the real world!"

I have been a Commercial Pilot for 24 years. In my world accuracy is everything.

I guess it's not in yours................. Wink Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
quote:
Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
Posting a car for sale & subsequently attaching a video & Encouraging parties to ..."Check out the video!", is going to illicit comments, both positive & critical.

As far as criticism being in your opinion the causation of ... "People wonder why Pantera's don't go up as much in value as other classics, well I would postulate it is in pa, highlighting every fault rather than focusing on the individuality and positive".

Nothing could be further from the truth, for an example.

The Ferrari Dino was belittled & criticised for decades as being the step child Ferrari & comments about the underpowered 6 cylinder engine, build quality, etc,etc.

Ferrari Dino's now are $400,000.00+++ cars.

The Plymouth Superbird & Dodge Daytona Charger are 2 more examples. Both cars languished on showroom floors, being shunned by the public at large, now trading depending on options up to $500,000.000+++

The 1963 "Split Window" Corvette was criticised for the "Split" & poor driver's visibility & many owners actually cut away the "Split", now those are $100,000.00 cars.

The Lamborghini Countach called a "Space Ship", an "Alien Car", Undrivable, etc,etc,...now the "alien" has landed in the $600,000.000 price Planet.

A more recent example, the Ford GT, another car that received a HUGE amount of negative comments, criticisms & collecting dust on showroom/s floors, ONCE AGAIN those Ford GT's selling NOW for 2+++ TIMES the original MSRP.

I could add additional countless examples, my point/s being Soundly affirmed!

So obviously your observation/s in regards to public criticism being the bane of a cars/Pantera's appreciation has not a single iodium of merit/truth.


In FACT many on this forum as evidenced by their collective numerous posts are in FACT, quite pleased by their Panteras appreciation in value.

I would suggest if you want to own a car that draws no negative criticism, then move to an uninhabited planet, just make sure it's not Mars, as I wouldn't want a Martian complaining about your rim choice & causing your angst...Mark


There has NEVER been a car produced that was devoid of criticism...Mark


Talking of planets I don't know on which one posting a video and saying "check it out" reads as "Watch the video and belittle and beride my car in public please".

You make a very valid point (with countless examples) on values of some cars that were not regarded well by collectors for many years. Yes those cars have all overcome that hurdle in what is now a strong collector car market, however Pantera values have not risen to the same occasion. It would be good to see some statistics on comparative price increases over time and I bet the gap widens, Pantera's IMO are still undervalued.

Once again you choose to blow an observation out of proportion, yes there will be critics of every car. I have no issue with people telling me they would have done my cars differently, that is personal taste. What is not tasteful is airing that publicly to a sellers post, if you are in the market and don't like that particular example simply move on or figure your required modifications cost into your negotiation with the seller. The fact is a lot of the people who comment aren't even in the market they just want to knock someone elses vision, that is not what Pantera ownership used to be about. Maybe I'm getting too old and the demographics are changing, that is what happens when the cars remain cheap and any punk can buy one.

Julian
WOW!!!..didn't realize that potential Pantera buyers were viewed in your very disparaging commentary as "Punks"!!!..."that is what happens when the cars remain cheap and any punk can buy one".

Glad I bought mine 20 years ago when buyers were considered "Astute Collectors".

Rather hypocritical to chastise people for making criticisms of a Pantera, yet you feel absolutely NO need to rein in your criticisms about "Punk Buyers".

That is what is referred to as "Selective Indignation"...Mark
quote:
Originally posted by 1973 Pantera:
quote:
Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
quote:
Originally posted by 1973 Pantera:
quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
It strikes me that more often than not whan a car comes up for sale here there are people willing to jump all over it and find fault.

IMO the "Pantera's for sale" section should be exactly that, a means for forum members to post their car for sale with legitimate responses and requests for more information and contact etc.

It should not be a bunch of virtual tire kickers who have not seen or inspected the car first hand.

Julian
Flame suit on



AMEN Julian.

Thankfully it's not as frequent on this forum as some others I been on, but I agree that negative comments or observations should not be posted in response to someones ad.

If one is genuinely interested or concerned, the seller should be contacted directly with a Private Message.
Why are some members so adverse to criticism?!

Criticism can be used as a valuable tool to fix/correct errors/problems & as a result produce a better product for sale.

Did you even watch the video?!...There is a fuel line from the fuel cell precariously close/lying on top of the positive terminal of the battery!!! ( 7:59 of video)

Do you feel that hazardous situation should not be commented on???!!!

I wonder what environment those people that so vehemently fear criticism work in, obviously not the real world!...Mark


So a Private Message to the seller, the one person on the planet who could immediately correct any problems, isn't sufficient?

Especially when your "observation" is totally WRONG?

Look closer: the fuel line at 7:59 of the video is lying close to the NEGATIVE terminal, not the positive. The cable is red, but it is actually the ground cable.

The positive battery terminal, which is well away from the fuel line, is well covered/protected by a red plastic cover. You can clearly see the positive cable exiting down thru the chassis from the positive terminal.

Oops! Razzer

As for your ponder: "I wonder what environment those people that so vehemently fear criticism work in, obviously not the real world!"

I have been a Commercial Pilot for 24 years. In my world accuracy is everything.

I guess it's not in yours................. Wink Big Grin
One quality I possess is the ability to admit "I'm Wrong" & in this case, you are exactly correct in regards to the fuel line from the fuel cell being on top of the ground cable, as I was fooled ( My Error) by the RED terminal on top of a ground cable.

See how easy it is for myself to accept criticism & admit fault.

Lesson to be learned here for some readers of this & other threads!...Mark

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