Tires 7 and 8

The Pirelli P7's, if you can find them:
225-50-15 F
285-55-15 R.

Toyo Proxies are the next best thing: 225-50-15, 295-50-15

The tire bias difference is part of the chassis balance system on the Pantera. I don't think that it is advisable to run the same tire front and back.

Rears: 295/50-15 Toyo Proxes S/T's
http://www.discount-tires-2go.com/Store_Detail.cfm?ID=1...=4853&ShowLarge=True

Fronts: 225/50-15 Toyo Proxes 4's
http://www.discount-tires-2go.com/Store_Detail.cfm?ID=1...=4853&ShowLarge=True

The tread pattern on the Proxes 4 is not an exact match to the Proxes ST, but it is close. Some might argue that the tread pattern on the T1R is a closer match, but again it's only close. The thing that caused me to select the Proxes 4 over the T1R was the pattern of the tread-blocks on/at the sidewall. The Proxes 4 tread blocks at the sidewall are almost identical to the tread blocks at the sidewall of the Proxes ST, which means the tires look like a MATCHED SET when viewed from the side (which is how everyone views the car when it's parked: they only see the rear end when it's moving!). This was important to me. The tread blocks at the sidewall of the T1R do not match the ST. They look like completely different tires when viewed from the side. And the Proxes R888 bears no resemblance at all to the Proxes ST. The R888 would look even more like a mis-matched tire than the T1R.

Go with the ST's on the rear and the 4's on the front and it will look like a matched set of tires.

Driving impressions:
The Toyo's suprised me! The Pantera feels much more confident and secure in corners
with the Toyos than it did with the BFG Comp TA's (front) and Euro TA's (rear). The Toyos have way more grip. And, turning requires less effort with the Toyos than the BFG's. Initial turn-in is easier and more responsive too. I love these tires compared to the BFG's. I haven't driven in rain, so I can't comment on wet traction, but the Toyo Proxes ST and 4's are rated as "all season" performance tires.

Check out Toyo's promo video here for more info about all the Proxes line of tires:
http://www.toyo.com/docs/videos.asp?video=ProxesLineProduct

Here's a thread with more Pantera driving impressions on the Toyo's:
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1510042044/m/1370000094

One more thing...

Toyo has discontinued making the Proxes S/T in a 295/50-15 size, so snatch them up if you can find them.

Great info, thanks


I thought that the sizes you mention are for the 8s front and 10s rear, or is it the same for 7s and 8s? 295 50 15 is not too big for an 8?

I got 205/50-15 and 295/50-15 on my 7" and 8" wheels. Fronts are a bit small, so the 225 would fit better.

quote:

I thought that the sizes you mention are for the 8s front and 10s rear, or is it the same for 7s and 8s? 295 50 15 is not too big for an 8?

Same size tires for either set of wheels - 7's & 8's, or 8's & 10's.

FWIW, Toyo specs the "approved rim width range" for the 295/50-15 at 8.0" - 10.0".

quote:

Originally posted by vyprgt2:
Great info, thanks


I thought that the sizes you mention are for the 8s front and 10s rear, or is it the same for 7s and 8s? 295 50 15 is not too big for an 8?

Depends entirely on what you expect from the car. To maximize traction without cutting the body, ideally 8" wide wheels would go on the front too, with 245-50 tires. Some massaging of the inner wheelwells and rolling the fender edges will be necessary with this tire, but the wider fronts will reduce factory understeer. It makes little difference if the tire is 15,16 or larger as far as interfering with the body although 16" or larger wheels with 50-section tires will also interfere a bit with the wiper motor shield.

In the rear with an 8" Campy, 275-55 is a maximum theoretical tire width to be adequately supported by that width wheel. But if you never do open track, don't drive aggressively in the hills and keep the tire inflation above 35 psi, the 295 will work to keep the rear wheels off the pavement. Handling will not be the best, but it will look fine. A 295 tire really needs a 10" wide wheel to work properly.

When the BFG radial TA was first introduced it was designed to mount a 7.0" rim. What the current generation of that tire requires is, I believe the same.

I do use it on the back of my 68 GT350 on stock 7" Shelby 10 spoke alloy rims. I run them at 35 psi and they seem to run very well.

quote:

In the rear with an 8" Campy, 275-55 is a maximum theoretical tire width to be adequately supported by that width wheel. But if you never do open track, don't drive aggressively in the hills and keep the tire inflation above 35 psi, the 295 will work to keep the rear wheels off the pavement. Handling will not be the best, but it will look fine. A 295 tire really needs a 10" wide wheel to work properly.

Uh, not according to the technical specification from Toyo for the 295/50-15 Proxes ST. As a matter of fact, 8's and 10's are the minimum and maximum rim width size limits on the same spectrum. And they must pass the same handling and safety requirements on all sizes within their spec to earn the various ratings for that tire - speed, traction, treadwear, etc.

The acceptable rim width for any given size of tire is something the manufacturer specifies. IIRC, 305/50-15 BFG Euro TA's spec'd an 8" to 11" rim as acceptable. The acceptable wheel size is not universal for any given tire size across manufacturers or even tire models.

garth66, you are right, the size for the rears in Toyo Proxes has been discontinued. I ordered them from Discount Tires, they don't have them and cancelled my order...


Anyone know of any other dealers who still have stock for the 295-50-15 Toyos? If that can't be done what else would be ok?

Well, I've called over 15 places (most of which have internet sites that say they have the 295 50 15 Toyos available)- noone has them available anymore. What is available are a comibination of 295 50 15 and 225 60 15 (BFG, Cooper Cobra, and Mickey Thompson)- would 225 60 15 be ok?

There was a 305-50-15 Euro T/A. It looks good but I wouldn't really beat hard on it though.

Tobad about the Toyos. I thought that wqs a great find.

quote:

Originally posted by vyprgt2:
What is available are a combination of 295 50 15 and 225 60 15 (BFG, Cooper Cobra, and Mickey Thompson)- would 225 60 15 be ok?

Depends on what you expect to do with the car. To maximize handling, Panteras will accept a 245-50x 15 front tire on an 8" wide Campy (stock front is 7", stock rear is 8", with a better offset). A little massaging of the inner fender panels will be needed to keep from rubbing at full lock (especially if you've removed the shock spacers), plus rolling the fender lips per the factory Tech Service Bulletin. This improves front-end traction and reduces the designed-in understeer, without having to flair the fenders. Understeer will be a little worse with 295-50s in back and either of the 225s in front.
But if you simply want to match tread patterns front and back for appearance, without regard for traction, 225-60 tires will be slightly taller and narrower than 225-50s but will work OK. Remember, STOCK tires were 185-70x 15 front and 215-70x 15 rear, so even the 225s are considerably wider than 'stock' fronts.

quote:

Originally posted by vyprgt2:
Well, I've called over 15 places (most of which have internet sites that say they have the 295 50 15 Toyos available)- noone has them available anymore. What is available are a comibination of 295 50 15 and 225 60 15 (BFG, Cooper Cobra, and Mickey Thompson)- would 225 60 15 be ok?

Here is a reply to my post from another forum on this board.

Good luck!

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2290052674...400069295#2400069295

The Michelin's referred to are actually made by Coker tire from Mold Michelin molds. At least someone is picking up the ball even if it is an expensive option.

Another option in use by GT40 and Cobra guys are;

Avon CRZ66 DOT competition tire, but a lot of guys swear by them for road use and get good wear. One of the few V rated radial 15" tires. Expensive, but cheaper than Coker's option and available through http://www.rogerkrausracing.com/Avon/AVCR6ZZ.shtml

Julian

Actually Michelin still produces the tires in periodic runs.
Coker just sells the tires.
Make sure you have them confirm the date code
on the tires these sit on the shelves at Coker for quite awhile.
You can order from Longstone Tires http://www.longstonetires.com
and even with shipping usually save over Coker.

Don't give up yet on the Toyo Tires yet!!!

There are some on a shelf out there somewhere.

I just bought the last two ST 295 50r/15 out of a shop in MI (I would give you the name but he has no more and can't get any)they are shipping today $180 a piece includes s/h.

Here is what I did Monday 3/6/9... no easy way... My advise is google tires and use the phone... call everyone on the list and ask. I had my order taken online only to find out they did not have them and could not get them. So 4 Days of calling later I have a set for #6656 Now for the paint and it is done. I will post pics when It is done.
Thanks Joe in FL

quote:

Now for the paint and it is done. I will post pics when It is done.

I look forward to seeing your pics Joe.

quote:

Originally posted by vyprgt2:
Well, I've called over 15 places (most of which have internet sites that say they have the 295 50 15 Toyos available)- noone has them available anymore. What is available are a comibination of 295 50 15 and 225 60 15 (BFG, Cooper Cobra, and Mickey Thompson)- would 225 60 15 be ok?

I found a place that now has 4-Toyo Proxes ST's 295/50-15" in stock. (They had 6, but I ended up buying a second spare set for myself). Send me a PM.

The choices for 15" tires is getting very slim. Will a P225/60R15 fit in a 71' front, without problems?

John

quote:

Will a P225/60R15 fit in a 71' front, without problems?

Why do you want to put a 225/60-15 in front??? There are plenty of 225/50-15 tires available.

FWIW, my car used to have 205/60-15 tires up front when I bought it.

I can't get matching tires front and rear with the same series profiles. BF Goodrich has the biggest selection. The best I can do is P275/60R15 rear with a P205/60,P215/60 or a P225/60 front. I have a P205/60 on the front now and when the wheel is locked to the right, I have something less than an inch clear to the front of the fender. The diameter of a P225/60 is almost an inch larger, leaving less than 1/2" clear.

Yes, there a lot of 225/50's, but try to match them up in the rear.

Any further comment would be welcomed. Thank you for your input.

John, you ought to 'roll' the outer lip of the front fenders under tightly for clearance, as the Factory did in '74. Almost all Panteras with 8" x 15" Campys mounted in front can run 245-50x 15 tires with some massaging of the under-fender sheet metal and splash panels, even with the front shock spacers removed. Such tires tend to minimize 'factory' understeer. Many Panteras are asymmetric in front probably due to an error in the factory welding jigs. This makes for different fender clearance with the left and right wheels- the right side wheel may stick out up to an inch further than the left. For high speed driving, adding extra caster pulls the front tires back a little and with some cars and combinations of wheels/tires, rubbing of the wiper motor splash shield or front brake hoses might occur. All this is fixable (and invisible from outside) with careful ball-peen hammer work.

Are you trying to get a certain speed rating? BFG has S rated tires in 295/50-15 for the rear. So does Firestone. They should also have matching 225/50-15 tires for the fronts.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...gemark=1&RunFlat=All

Here are some other 295/50-15 tires on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...12|39%3A1|240%3A1318
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...12|39%3A1|240%3A1318
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...12|39%3A1|240%3A1318
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

FWIW, the BFG's are showing availability in July of 2009.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by garth66:
Are you trying to get a certain speed rating? BFG has S rated tires in 295/50-15 for the rear. So does Firestone. They should also have matching 225/50-15 tires for the fronts

Yes Garth, you would think so, but they don't.Go to the B F Goodrich site (Radial T/A's) and see the will offer a P295/50HR15, but not a P225/50HR15.

I really thank you for your help, but the 15" tire avialibility is really strange. It's almost as if they are just getting rid of what they have on hand.

I can't find a 295/50 to match up with a 225/50 by the same manufactuer.

John

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bosswrench:
John, you ought to 'roll' the outer lip of the front fenders under tightly for clearan
-------------------------------------------
Jack, I took some pictures last night and I will forward them when I get to the office on Monday. There is a big difference between the right and left sides.

John