The quote below if from another post that I did not want to hijack.

quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
One advantage of separate hats & rotors is you can move them outboard, so you don't have to disassemble the axles for future changes.


I'm going to need to go down this road too at some point. I have a couple of questions regarding moving the hats to the outside.

1) What is the thickness of the hats? I ask because this will change how the wheels fit inside the fender.

2) Is this going to require changing the wheel studs because of the different configuration?

3) How about the same questions relating to changing the front too?

Steve
Original Post
Hey Steve

The disks (rotors) must be centered within the gap of the calipers. When you're moving parts around, there are two ways to accomplish this:

  • Reposition the calipers with offset brackets.
  • Use hats of different depth, so the disks remain in the same position they were in before you moved their mounting position.


I don't think the thickness of the hats warrant replacing the wheel studs. But the wheels and tires are a more complicated subject.

The front Campy clones I am familiar with could be spaced outward 6mm without issue so long as the front of the car isn't lowered too much. If the rear wheels are shod with 335/35ZR17 tires, then the tires already hang outside the fenders by about 5mm. Can they go any further? I don't know. Would they look good hanging outside the fenders by 11mm?

If you're purchasing new brakes (especially needed at the rear) I'd recommend contacting SACC, Scott has this all worked out. I would enjoy learning whatever you learn on the subject!

-G
The thickness of the hats on the flange is nominally 1/4". (about 6.35mm) That shouldn't adversely effect the tire to fender clearances.

The hats are available in different offsets so you should basically be able to find a combination where you do not need to relocate the calipers.

Part of the thinking with separate hats/rotors is that it becomes somewhat of a modular system giving you much more flexibility of the bake system.

You MAY need to shim them to center the rotor on the caliper though? In fact that is very likely. Hardened shims are available from hardware suppliers. Those are very similar to the thickness varieties you would use for shimming valve springs with selections from a few thousands up to about 1/8" thick.

None of this is rocket science.
Wilwood makes a Pantera specific hat for outboard mounted rotors. I don't recall the part # but the description is "Pantera Competition" hat. It's much deeper than the regular Pantera hat so you don't need to re-mount your calipers for outboard mounted rotors. I'm sure we have Dennis Quella to thank for Wilwood manufacturing this particular hat.

IPSCO makes a front hub that's designed for outboard rotor mounting. It has the mounting surface recessed 1/4", so outboard mounted rotors don't alter the offset of your front wheels.

Also, if you're going to go the effort of converting to outboard mounted rotors, it's the perfect time to switch to stronger, cheaper 1/2"-20 lugs.

Attachments

Photos (1)
quote:
Originally posted by David_Nunn:
Wilwood makes a Pantera specific hat for outboard mounted rotors. I don't recall the part # but the description is "Pantera Competition" hat. It's much deeper than the regular Pantera hat so you don't need to re-mount your calipers for outboard mounted rotors. I'm sure we have Dennis Quella to thank for Wilwood manufacturing this particular hat.

IPSCO makes a front hub that's designed for outboard rotor mounting. It has the mounting surface recessed 1/4", so outboard mounted rotors don't alter the offset of your front wheels.

Also, if you're going to go the effort of converting to outboard mounted rotors, it's the perfect time to switch to stronger, cheaper 1/2"-20 lugs.


Who is the vendor that had the DT lugs to match the 1/2-20 studs?
The Wilwwod 170-0636 hat is listed on their website and Summit Racing with a 2.1" offset?

http://www.wilwood.com/Hats/HatList.aspx

Coleman make and 8x7.62 hat in varying offsets and charge an extra $15 for custom stud spacing.

http://www.colemanracing.com/R...-Aluminum-P4494.aspx

Larry Stock also has hats for outboard rotors from Sierra Racing, he ordered blanks and machined them for the 4 on 4.5 bolt spacing. BTW Sierra racing Products was purchased by Joes Racing Products who then promptly dropped making brakes.

Remember that in upgrading the brakes many go with a thicker vented rotor, which in turn alters the offset required. Custom caliper spacers are not hard to fabricate and come with many of the vendor supplied kits to correct offset. Another reason many choose the vendor route is it's all (supposedly) worked out and a bolt on, but so many wheel combinations and offsets in use that is hard to guarantee.
Why do people think they need instant access to the rear brake rotors by mounting them outside the axle flange? Maybe for pro-racing.... It complicates caliper mounting, e-brake positioning and requires longer brake flex hoses, cables etc. The only street advantage I see is, the wheel studs cut their anti-rotation splines in the steel axle flange instead of the aluminum hat-flange.

Along with David Nunn's comments, also consider that some of the current aftermarket outer stub axles seem to have stronger, thicker flanges. And since the stub axles were designed as a drop-in replacement for stock hollow axles, any extra flange thickness may be toward the outside so stock rotors mount at the stock position inside. It's maybe only a little extra but it seems we're pushing the unflared stock body limits with 10" Campys and 295-50s x 15" already.
quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Why do people think they need instant access to the rear brake rotors by mounting them outside the axle flange? Maybe for pro-racing.... It complicates caliper mounting, e-brake positioning and requires longer brake flex hoses, cables etc. The only street advantage I see is, the wheel studs cut their anti-rotation splines in the steel axle flange instead of the aluminum hat-flange.

Along with David Nunn's comments, also consider that some of the current aftermarket outer stub axles seem to have stronger, thicker flanges. And since the stub axles were designed as a drop-in replacement for stock hollow axles, any extra flange thickness may be toward the outside so stock rotors mount at the stock position inside. It's maybe only a little extra but it seems we're pushing the unflared stock body limits with 10" Campys and 295-50s x 15" already.


What's the fun unless we push the limits?

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post
×
×
×
×