10Qt pan oil volume

quote:

Originally posted by DOES 200:... so I just thought something is off and the proper way was to put the 9.5 in and mark it....

I am just thinking here...BUT;

wouldn't the critical oil level be determined by setting the level some distance below the "crank circle". I would think this would be with respect to the side of the block where the filler tube is pressed in. (I thought I had a drawing showing that depth for a standard stroked 351C, but haven't been able to locate now)

If your Pantera oil dipstick is the proper length, there was a TSB on that issue, that is all you need to properly fill your oilpan.

It matters not if that oilpan is stock, stock modified, ten quart or made out of fairy dust.

All pans are properly filled when the oil is at the proper mark on the stock dipstick.

The correct oil fill is designed to be at a low enough level where the crankshaft is not acting like a kitchen mixer and whipping air into the oil. Overfill and you enter the whipped-oil zone.

That proper relationship between the crank and the dipstick fill mark does not change when you change the oilpan.

This used to confuse me, too, so don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

But it really is that simple.

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:...
Larry

you had a post with more info
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...50045562/m/621109365

from your latter research is this still correct I have found other post that differ

I converted your write up to a drawing

I would like if some one has the measurement from the block where the tube fits to the bearing center line AND the crank circle diameter (or the radius of windage tray)

Joe,

I have a regular and Pantera 351C dipstick. Photos follow.

They do not show the ...exact... same dimensions, but they are quite close to my earlier dimensions and thus your new drawing.

I fully believe, as noted earlier, that if your dipstick is correct (later correct dipsticks had a yellow handle to show the update, and the dealers were supposed to paint the handle yellow when they performed the TSB modification) the full and low dipstick lines are certainly better than pouring in a known amount of oil and remarking the dipstick (as I believe Jan may have done).

Not sure what the dimensions you asked for would illustrate. Perhaps just curiosity as to what the Ford engineers felt was proper level in relation to the crank?

Larry

Pantera

I had never thought about the oil LEVEL in the sump. So the obvious is not to have the level in the rotation.

as for the block dimensions, I wanted to see how much below the level is from the crank. I just look at a 9 quart pan and sort of surprised at the oil is only 4" deep.

I've got a short block on a stand - no oil pan - in one of my sheds. I'll stick a tube and dipstick in it and then we'll know.

I'll take a photo tomorrow.

Stay tuned.

Larry

And for a bit of humor related to this thread and oil levels.......

MANY years ago a sweet little old lady co-worker asked if I could come to her home to look at her car that wouldn't start. She had earlier noted it was leaking oil, and I had just offhandedly remarked that she could easily just add oil as needed and gave her a short tutorial.

So, I get to her home and first want to see her issues. "won't start" is not very descriptive

Will it crank? Yes. Okay, turn the key.........

So there I am, under the open hood and she cranks it. I don't recall why, but I had the oil fill cap removed from the valve cover.

And the oil comes splashing out the valve cover hole!!

She had just routinely added oil, no check of the existing oil level, to the point the poor battery couldn't rotate the crank fast enough, in an oilpan fully filled (and who knows how much higher) with oil, for it to start.

I think I drained 5-6 quarts out of that car, and all was good.

sometimes.........

Larry

My stick is 38" as measured shown in the diagram above. If that is the correct length, I still get way above the full line when I put in 9.5qt. So I figured just mark it there and be done with it for my full line. But now with another oil change coming up, I was thinking maybe some remains in the pan and therefore putting in 9.5 would actually be overfill. I have a Fontana block, so not sure if that may be throwing off some measurements. But if all the oil does exit the pan on an oil & filter change, I will just use my own 9.5qt mark on the stick. I am just not sure if all oil does exit.

Jan,

The Fontana block may change things.

If it positions the dipstick tube entry point to the block higher or lower (where it enters the block relative to the crankshaft centerline) to the tube entry point on the ford Cleveland block, adjustments will need to be made.

If the Fontana entry point is higher, filling to your dipstick's full reading would actually be overfilling. Lower would be underfilled.

Your 38" dipstick is a good thing and will give you the proper oil level, as long as no one has shortened the tube for some obscure reason or you have an aftermarket tube not made to the proper dimensions.

Do you have a photo of the front of the Fontana that shows where the dipstick tube enters the block?

Larry

No, sorry I don't have a photo of the front. But do you think all oil exits an oil pan with baffles on an oil change or does some remain in the pan?

Don't truly know but would be surprised if more than 4 ounces remained after draining hot oil with the car at the proper tilt.

Don't think I've ever read anything answering that question.

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
If your Pantera oil dipstick is the proper length, there was a TSB on that issue, that is all you need to properly fill your oilpan.

It matters not if that oilpan is stock, stock modified, ten quart or made out of fairy dust.

All pans are properly filled when the oil is at the proper mark on the stock dipstick.

The correct oil fill is designed to be at a low enough level where the crankshaft is not acting like a kitchen mixer and whipping air into the oil. Overfill and you enter the whipped-oil zone.

That proper relationship between the crank and the dipstick fill mark does not change when you change the oilpan.

This used to confuse me, too, so don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

But it really is that simple.

Larry

Kimosabe, the Lone Ranger say, ask Tonto! Tonto know!

Tonto say 9 quart in pan. Oil, not firewater!

Yeah I find its always beneficial to gain input from Tonto & other experts. I find that my logic & common sense isn't always correct, but I would think all significant levels of oil should exit a pan once you drain it and upon filling a 10qt pan about 9 - 9.5 should be the right level. Its just so odd to me that I put in 9qt and the level shows so high. I checked my prior notes and I even did a photo below on an oil change back in 2013 after filling and running the car & letting all settle. I just don't think it would be logical for the builder to put in a 10qt pan that for some reason only really needs about 5qt to show full on the stick. That's why I am thinking my mark shown on the photo is really showing the correct level. I just don't want to be like the poor woman above and overfill by 5qt or so by just putting in 9 - 9.5qt. Maybe I will just take the black 5S to Tommy Hodges and say "WTF", because I think he was involved with some building of that car, and becides I need other things done such as AC & trans mounts. Let him deal with that one and I will move onto changing the oil in my other cars.

Ha ha just went to my red 5S that also has a Fontana block and my prior oil change notes show that same exact fill level on the stick with a 9qt oil change. Only thing I can think is that it is something with the Fontana engine build, tube length or whatever is causing 9qt to be at that level on the stick.

ITSWIKDStickAnd9QT by JanDaMan, on Flickr

AVIAID's response to that is the pan rating is "approximate".
I'm pretty sure that if you are very close to the line, either way, you are ok.

There are no pockets in either the stock pan or the AVIAID that will retain oil. I presume that Armondo's is the same as the AVIAID's?

The real effort of changing the oil would be that if you had an additional oil cooler. There you have the likeliness of oil left in the hoses and the cooler itself.

If you need to drain as close to 100% of the oil as possible then you need to install an in line petcock near the cooler and at the lowest point in the system.

Internally the engine componets will continue to drip oil for a while. Maybe as much as 48 hours or so.

Many people will just leave the pan to drain for an extended period, like overnight.

That really isn't necessary though unless you need to remove a know contaminant, then you would need to drain, fill, run the engine for a few minutes, then drain again.

This comes from Tonto, Kemosabe. Tonto know! "Hi-o-silver and away!"

Mine is just a little below your's. Bad light today, sorry. You can make out the W though?

9 qts in the pan. Raises a good question though Jan. I don't know why it is so much above the safe line at all.

I need to go smoke piece pipe with Tonto for clarification?

Great to see someone else at the W on the stick too. Taking a beer break after getting the oil out of the red 5S Fontana car. But to get a rough idea of what is coming out compared to going in, I took a tip from Breaking Bad weighing money and I weighed the oil (9qts in the bottles in a box weighed 20 lb and there was 20 lb that came out into the plastic oil container). So ballpark wise, it seems all the oil is coming out like you said. When filling with oil I recall someone said to just put in 8 at first, then run the car a minute or so and then add the last quart. Could be it was Tonto recommendation, so I always have done that.

Tonto mumble sometimes. Speak strage 'injun speak'. Call Ranger stupid. Has big Bowie knife. Can't ask him many questions. Complains feet hurt because of crappie moccasins. Go figure?

So here's an alternative thought; what's the magic around squeezing in 9 quarts?

Has anyone looked at where the dipstick markings are in relation to the crank with the pan off? Typically the full marking is at a point that keeps the crank/rods from being immersed in an oil bath. The windage tray does a similar job to prevent splash and oil frothing/foaming so I'd approach it from that angle rather than a fixed volume that is way up the dipstick.

Julian