1974 Pantera

Hello Fangio
And a warm welcome to the PI forum. Perhaps one of the best places for Pantera talk and information.
My thoughts (others may differ and it's all Good!! )
1. Going to Chrome, original moldings are stainless steel (others, correct me if I am wrong) This may be perhaps the hardest of your requests as the trim can be difficult to locate if you intend to replace it with polished stainless. You may be able to soda blast the black anodizing and polish the trim or send it out to have it redone. I am doing that with a 66 vette and 69 cuda. Took me almost 2 years to locate drivers drip rail trim for one of my pantera restorations. When I saw the second one on e-bay, I bought it just for spite.
2. Removing the delta wing is easy, 4 bolts and its off. I have seen some people cover the holes with molded plastic plugs. Same type used in the door arm rest. Actually looked okay. If you want to fill it, really only way is to cut small metal plug and weld then grind smooth. Repaint deck lid to match. Nice option may be to paint semi gloss black like a GTS. What color is the car?
3. I as well as many others have done the same with the L bumpers. I suspect they will be a rare item one day. You will have large holes in the rear valance where the rear bumper shocks were. Again plugs or weld and paint. Front will also have holes but you have some options. Ameri-sport offers a kind of split bumper that usese the same mounting holes and looks cool. If you use 71-72 bumpers they won't fit right without doing some cutting and fabrication, there is a kind of indentation on each side. Best option, Euro bumpers, there is a pair on E-bay right now from Panteragirl. I got a set for my next pantera project. Most of these options will require painting but can easily be hidden when new bumpers are installed.
Lastly, Slow...are you kidding me? These cars look like they are doing a hundred when standing still. Contridiction of terms, no such thing as a slow pantera. Okay, truth is unless you are racing it on a track somewhere, where are you really going to use all the power that a few extra ponies would offer? I have had a stock 74 and have a 500hp car now, if you are just going to take it to shows and have fun with it, stock or maybe a small cam or headers is plenty. Just my .02 cents

Well Congrats and Welcome...
I own a 1974 and lets start with is it slow... well any car that goes 55mph stock in first gear really can't be called slow now compared to the higher compression motors 1971-72 maybe but trust me by 1974 some other refinements were made that offset the minimal speed loss. Now as for the wing if you take it off as stated before welding filling and repainting. I like the looks of my recently added wing I will not go back but to each his/her own. As for the bumpers I also like the look of the ft bumper plus the areo downforce it gives at high speeds but that is just me. Here are some pictures of the ft of my car before paint once you pull the bumper off it is not hard to do there are some real little screws/ bolts and nuts that have to come off in order to get the bumper off. Ask questions there are no jerks here plenty of people to answer all questions (please nobody setup to the plate to prove me wrong at least in 11 years nobody has been one to me.)

PS if you pull the Delta wing don't give it away they fetch a pretty penny

FANGIO ...where are you in NY ?

Ron

Hi Fangio,

You might be better off to find an early car that already has the polished stainless window surrounds and small bumpers. If you do decide to buy the 74, be aware that changing from black window surrounds to polished stainless is a lot of work. You will not have to buy any new trim, you just have to strip the paint off and have it polished. In order to remove the trims/mouldings from the windscreen rubber requires the removal of the windscreen. Under no circumstances attempt to remove the stainless trims from the rubber without taking the windscreen out because you will not be able to get them out without bending them. The gentle bend will not be obvious until you have finished reinstalling the windscreen and find the corners of the trim will not sit down tight against the rubber.

The trims around the door frames are much easier because they pop off, and back on again. The rear quarter window will have to come out with the rubber just like the windscreen, this is not easy with the engine in place.

As the other guys have said, there will be quite a lot of holes to fill too.

I recommend you post pictures of the car you are considering buying on this forum so that you can benefit from our combined experience. We will soon tell you if it's any good or not! Pictures of the rocker bottoms taken from lying on the ground and the bottom of the lower front valance will tell us an awful lot. Or ask one of the guys from the New York area like Ron to look at it for you. Please have the car inspected by someone with Pantera specific knowledge.
Just because the car has a nice paint job does not mean what lies beneath has been done properly.

We are here to help you.

Johnny

Fangio, unless the car you are interested in is a genuine "survivor", I wouldn't worry about how powerful the engine is. Few Panteras- now 38-40 years old- have completely stock engines. The factory changes to '73-74 engines for smog compliance are easily reversable during std maintenence and can be done cheaply by the avg. backyard mechanic. Most Panteras in good running condition today will exceed 150 mph quicker than you ever thought possible. More important is the condition of the ZF transaxle which is the single most expensive part in the car- when new or nowadays. It should shift smoothly from gear to gear without grinding or odd noises when driving. Fully reconditioned ZFs sell for around $11,000 so check carefully.
As Joe's photos show, changing L bumpers leaves a 2" hole in each of the 4 fender corners for the 5 mph bumper-shocks, and due to their visibility, the big holes are usually welded closed, prepped & repainted. The blacked-out trim may have been powder-coated, spray-can-painted or otherwise reworked. Obviously, spray-can paint will be easier to remove than powder coating. Almost as important as a good transaxle is the condition of the body: most guys can handle mechanical stuff but good bodywork & paint is precious. Take a 'bondo-meter' with you when shopping for a steel-body Pantera. These are also called 'paint-thickness-gauges' and do not damage the finish while telling you something about what's under that pretty paint. They are available at most paint stores; paint will be in the neighborhood of a couple of thousandths of an inch thick; if your meter shows much more, there's filler present. I've seen 'plastic sculptures' beautifully done on cars involved in major accidents. Be wary of cars with certain out of state titles, since a few states allow re-registration by mail of cars with 'scrap' stamped on the title from being totalled by an insurance company. The new title will not have 'scrap' on it.... The Pantera is an all-welded monococque body that's difficult and expensive to properly repair- similar to a Porsche. Club members can help you find what you're looking for while avoiding over-priced or badly repaired examples. We keep records of many of the cars by serial number so for any candidates, write down the VIN # and post it; likely someone will know the car's past history.

Thanks to all of you for the welcome and great advice! I hope to close a deal soon and be a part of the community here.

To touch on a couple of topics:

Speed - my concern was that a '74 Pantera would suffer compared to a '71 the same way that a '74 Corvette or Trans Am suffered against their 1971 versions. This apparently isn't much of a concern any longer because the modifications for emissions can easily be reversed and a holley 750 alone should boost horsepower by 20 alone. I am curious to know what the the speed difference might be between a 71 and 74 pantera from 0-60.

Window Mouldings - I may just keep them as is - I'll live with it for awhile and see how I feel about the look.

Delta Wing - Likely to come off and perhaps I'll have someone fill in the bolt holes - I'd prefer not to repaint the car or even the decklid - The car is painted Viper Red 2002 and and has seen 300 miles since then, so paint fading or matching shouldn't be an issue.

As far as the bumpers are concerned, my thought is to now go with Amerisport bumpers in black in front and back, and leave the black mouldings as they are for the time being. This way, I don't have to worry about chrome bumpers.

Lastly, here is the link to the completed listing on ebay. I won the bid and was prepared to purchase but the Seller may be having some issues that will take six weeks to resolve before he can send the car, so he gave me an out if I want to take it. Any information on this car would be greatly appreciated, as well as thoughts in general. In sum, I'm willing to make certain compromises in terms of taking the wing off, year 74 instead of 71, and black trim instead of chrome because I think I am getting a great deal at 36K.

Again, any input is really, really appreciated.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...3eda86#ht_500wt_1182

AC Cobra - I live in Manhattan and would keep the car at my weekend house in East Hampton. You?

Fangio,
Looks nice but I personally hate buying cars with fresh paint. Like for example the rear quarter where the quarter meets the rear valance. There is a seam that has been filled (or atleast not visible in the pic) with some type of filler. Not uncommon really, but suspect that there may be more filler in the car. Having said that, for 36K (if it checks out to be solid and not full of filler) it looks like a very nice buy.

This does look to be in nice condition but these pictures are not good enough. Dont part with any money until you have had it inspected or posted better pictures of the underside of the rockers and lower front valance. Also take pictures of the engine compartment where the drive shaft passes through the hole. This is a serious structural rust area. I notice the body shop did not mask the bottom of the radiator so how good is the rest of their work?

Johnny

Thanks for the advice.

The car is in Flower Mound Texas. I understand Dallas is about a half hour away from Flower Mound. Can anyone recommend a mechanic in or around Dallas Flower Mound Texas that could perform the inspection, and may be willing to travel to the car?

Get ahold of John Holmes at Apex Driving academy.

http://www.apexdrivingacademy.com/contact.htm
He lives in Flower Mound and is VERY familliar with Panteras.


Ron

This sounds like a very good deal at $36K. I would be more concerned about the ZF than the bumpers and the wing. Also, my advise is not walk away from the car even if you see minor rust underneath, it can be fixed. Panteras rust from inside out. It has competition cam, Big Bore exhaust and a 750 carb. These mods alone will make it faster than a stock 351.

Looks a good buy for $36K, but pictures don't tell the full story, so I would recommend you conduct a full inspection, especially as Ron has suggested someone in the area knowledgeable to do that.

IMO that car would not look as good with stainless trim, but that's just me.

Julian

Thanks, again, to all of you for your valuable input, which is greatly appreciated.

Ron, I spoke with John today and am very comfortable with him handling the inspection, which he is coordinating.

Thanks, again!

I've been dealing with John Holmes and for anyone who wants to do an inspection in Texas, I can certainly recommend him without reservations. While still contemplating the car that he looked inspected for me, I came across this car that I am very interested in: http://www.ctrmotors.com/detai...pe-used-8291557.html

I'm having an inspector check out the car, but at the same time, I'd feel much more comfortable if someone who has knowledge of Panteras would take a look.

John Holmes doesn't know anyone in the Bay Area of California that could look at the car. If anyone is in the area, or knows of someone who is very familiar with Panteras, I'd appreciate a referral. Obviously, I'd be willing to pay the going rate to inspect the car. Any advice is appreciated! I'm very exciting at getting a closer to owning a Pantera but want to make sure I don't by someone else's headache!

Thanks in advance.

Fangio,

Sorry for the delayed response ... My location is north of you ... Suffern NY. One area of concern I would express for you would be ...make sure the AC works and the car don't overheat ... Manhattan to East Hampton will probably put you on the LIE in mid summer. Otherwise any help I can offer you locally ? I have a 79 GTS 99% stock and a project 73 ...

Ron

I appreciate the offer but am looking at a car that is in California. Pantera # 7068. Any info you or anyone may have on the car would be appreciated.

I don't plan on driving the car in Manhattan, the taxis here would run right over a Pantera!