4 x Weber 48 IDF (not IDA) conversion

Marcus,

the intake used is the Australian RedLine intake. It is an intake designed to work with adapters allowing it to be used with either the IDF or IDA Webers. The problem is, the IDF adapters are so tall, the Webers will sit too high & interfere with the engine screen.

While browsing the internet a while back, I ran across a news blurb that a manufacturer in Australia intended to reproduce the Cain intake manifolds. That may be our ticket to IR Nirvana.

Look at the 4th & last pictures below & you'll see how high the intake is with the adapters in place.

George

Ouch.

Thanks for the pictures, George, they will come in handy.

I have been to Smith Bros. Foundry here in Victoria and learned that a ballpark price for casting something like this in aluminum is under $200 Canadian.

That leaves the cost of the patternmaker, into which I have not yet looked.

I thought of a few more questions:

1. I believe we need intake manifold vacuum to operate the power brake. Correct?

2. We need ported vacuum for the distributor. Can we get this with Webers?

3. Is there any sort of choke mechanism or cold-start enrichment available on a Weber IDF setup?

This kind of information is hard to come by from the vendors' websites.

The ports on this intake appear to be for Ford 2v's. Keep that into account when you are looking for an intake.

If the port runners are thick enough then you can probably port match them to the heads you are using.

The 2v iron heads will support 400hp but the aluminum heads support 600hp. If you are putting on performance carbs, why not use performance heads also?

How much to cast them in magnesium?

When considering the height that you have available for the carbs in the Pantera also consider 1)are you going to use air cleaners and 2) you need approximately the same distance over the top of the carb as the diameter.

A side draft intake for the DCOE's, like for the GS Corvette, would work better. Especially if you went to IR FI on them.

I've never seen one of those for a Cleveland.
I think I saw Inglese with one on a 289. If I remember right, it could have been an Indy part.

Most (not all) intakes made for the 351C in Australia feature 2V ports with enough "flange" around the port to allow them to bolt to 4V heads. Kinda the way they do things down under. The reason being that not too many 4V motors were sold in Austalia.

Weber manufactures low profile air filters for the 48 IDF carbys. No choke system that I'm aware of however. Gotta sit and blip the throttle for a minute or two. Sounds so bitchen, its actually a pleasure to do so.

Dougs suggestion about the alloy 2V heads (CHI, AFD or Edelbrock) is a good one. Not only will it look better, but the 2V heads flow like ported 4V heads, but have 2V throttle response. Good looks, good throttle rsponse, good power and lighter weight. I doesn't get much better than that.

Marcus to answer your question about the power brake & dizzy vacuum sources, you've probably seen Weber installations with a bunch of 1/8" tubing lines neatly bent so as to hook to each intake port and join together in a little block, either at the back of the motor, or in the middle of the manifold. Those aren't nitrous lines, thats a little vacuum manifold system. See the picture below.

I e-mailed the Australian company that is supposed to be reproducing the Cain intakes, and am waiting for a response.

cowboy from hell

Below is the Cain intake.

Very simple, clean design. No adpaters so the carbys sit much lower. Notice the ports are 2V size with the wide flanges that allow fitment to 4V heads.

I'd be intered in hearing about the manifold also. Keep us all posted please.

A friend of mine had IDA's on a Hall manifold and managed to put all the power brake vacuum lines under the manifold so they where in the lifter gallery. It was a very neat solution and worked well.

Johnny

Here's the reply:

Gidday George

Yes we are the owners of the Cain manifolds, all the patterns had been in storage & 1 by 1 we are doing repairs & trying to get them all back into production..shipping to the USA is not a problem & hey we will sell you as many as you want..HA HA HA ..we hope to establish a dealer network worldwide as we have many unique products for both Aussie & American engines.the manifold is still a while from being back in production but I am quite sure if you placed a firm order or wanted more than 1 intake we could speed things up a bit..Regards Mark

I've written him back and asked for a price. Who is interested?

George,

I'm interested. I actually looked at ordering the Redline version with adapters.

Hey can you get a deal on the 48mm IDF's and linkages to go with the manifold too?

Julian

I've written him back and asked for a price. Who is interested?[/QUOTE]

It depends on 1) the price and 2) can I make them fit my heads (cause I ain't changing 'dem).

Looking at the pictures the port walls look very thick and there is hope.

Keep in mind shipping from Australia is steep, I believe the last intake I purchased from the land of Oz had about $200 shipping tacked onto it.

To fit this intake to A3 heads you'll need to fabricate spacer plates to raise the intake, redrill the intake bosses on the heads (higher location) and do something to fill in the gaps at the valley rails.

cowboy from hell

quote:

Originally posted by george pence:
Keep in mind shipping from Australia is steep, I believe the last intake I purchased from the land of Oz had about $200 shipping tacked onto it.

To fit this intake to A3 heads you'll need to fabricate spacer plates to raise the intake, redrill the intake bosses on the heads (higher location) and do something to fill in the gaps at the valley rails.

cowboy from hell

$200 US or Australian? Tell them I want mine in magnesium.

Mark wrote back and asked for a head count before quoting a firm price. So come on, who wants to buy a Weber IDF intake for a 351C?

Doug that shipping price was in USD$$.

So far I have myself and Julian. Marcus, are you in?

cowboy from hell

George,

$200 shipping?? Each?

Okay, here's my measuring stick (I'm not too concerned about all this fitting under the engine screen, but the Cain version would certainly look neater.)

Tweakit in Sydney sell the 351C Redline manifold with the IDF adapters for US$555. You can add a linkage kit for $95 and shipping for both to Reno is US$105 via AusPost Intl Parcel post (est. 10 day delivery).

I couldn't find anyone in the US selling just the manifold Maybe Redline direct, but when I last contacted them they completely ignored my request.

Julian

Maybe my overworked mush pit of a brain remembered the price wrong, maybe it is only $100, or maybe the retailer I did business with took lessons from our Pantera vendors .

If I can have that manifold in my hands for $700 USD I'm buying one. If its less, all the better. The Parker Funnel Web runs about $700 to your door.

I owned the Red Line intake, I purchased it from Hardiman Auto Supplies/Red Line in Australia. I couldn't find it stateside. The Cain manifold is a superior item.

Reads to me like our limits are about the same. How about Doug & Marcus?

cowboy from hell

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
It depends on 1) the price and 2) can I make them fit my heads (cause I ain't changing 'dem).

Likewise. I have the 4V quench heads, and I want to keep them.

I wasn't planning on doing this right now, but if chiming in makes this a reality for everyone and they work on my heads, I'm in.

(My current most urgent priority for the car is buying the wheels/tires at PIM.NET. Also, I just rebuilt my Holley 700 double pumper. I expect to light it up again tomorrow evening, and will schedule an appointment on the dyno to finish tuning it as soon as they have a time slot.)

All for for IDA's; Hall 4v $600, small port $650.

TWM; 351-w $461.

When available for the 289-302 the IDF manifolds are about $50 cheaper.

I'd say a decent deal would be $450. I'll bet they are priced a lot more.

I don't know if I can use it. The prospects of remachining the mounting bolts, porting the runners and spacer plates kind of counteract the fact that it is a lower assembly.

Since the A3 is a high port head and the 2v is the opposite direction I have to ask myself why do I need it?

Also the Weber 48IDA's become restrictive to the induction system at around 480hp. That for me is around 6500rpm. Looking at those ports I don't think they flow better then what I have.

Even though the 2v port could be matched up in size to the C302, the floors won't line up by about 3/4". No matter how you look at it, that isn't good.

Regardsless of what CHI did with flow numbers current thinking on intake ports is still "straight to the valve", like a tunnel ram. From the top down, not from the bottom up, Unfortunately the 2v ports go the other way. That has to be restrictive at some point.

That Cain is for 2v Australian iron heads. Maybe it works with CHI's too?

Sorry, the thread was already hyjacked.

Like I said, it depends on the price.

The Redline manifold has an underside plenum for brake vacuum. Just drill tiny holes below each runner and close the plenum with a plate. Then tap for a hose to the booster wherever you want it.

George,

Did the Aussies ever come back with a price for the Cain reproduction?

Julian