Davis Craig Water Pump

Wow… yes, we would like to see a picture of your girlfriend… She must have really long legs! I’m 6’2” (193cm) with long legs and I fit..

But no pictures of you (or your legs) are necessary, Roland!

Photos, sorry No legs 😃

Your bypass has to connect to the suction side of the pump to do anything.

Peter, I'm all in favor of keeping long-legged passengers comfortable!  If you relocate the stock alternator to the area above and back 1" from its usual place ala' the GT-5 and later cars bracket, the alt' can be driven by the unused second crank pulley groove. That move can allow a MUCH smaller custom firewall blister around the water pump only, and the passenger seat will then adjust all the way back to the firewall. She will be happy.

If you find or duplicate a stock post-1980 engine bracket for the alt, smog pump and A/C, your stock alternator will bolt on in place of the seldom used smog pump, with 1" cut off the front of the alt's casting mount and the cut aluminum piece used as a spacer on the stock bolt. There's an illustrated article on this in the POCA Newsletter Archives some 30 years ago. My wife used to drive our Pantera about 50% of the time so the 'long-legged passenger' was often me!

Happy cruising!

I relocated the alternator as described and went with a custom water pump pulley that moved that drive belt back. I was almost able to eliminate the bubble completely and I removed the stock bubble and used 3/4" thick plywood for the bulkhead.

That with lowering the floor pans 2" and going to the electric parking brake and removing the original parking brake handle and mounting brackets completely changed the nature of the cabin.

I am 6'2" as well and no, I am not going to post a picture of my legs.

@panteradoug posted

I am 6'2" as well and no, I am not going to post a picture of my legs.

No worries, I got them from last time… 😂

i’m sorry…  I couldn’t resist 🤪

Roland…. I was going to “like” your post (because it is funny), but I was afraid people might get the wrong impression of what I was liking!

Thanks for the bracket solution for the alternator, but what about the electric water Pump?  It only use 10 A and works better than any mechanical water Pump. Above 3500 rpm a mechanical water Pump is ineffizient. What Happens when we remove our Robert Shaw Thermostat and mount a restrictor Plate with a small hole ?  Davis Craig have a Waterpump replacement Kit for the Windsor, and I think the Bolt patern sheme is the same than on the Cleveland.

Most if not all known electric water pumps simply don't deliver enough flow. A stock 375-bhp 351-C takes a minimum of 50 cubic ft/min of coolant flow to stay cool and I don't know of any electrics that pump that much. Most are around 30-35 cfm- good for dyno tests and drag racing but not road work. A large aluminum radiator will help by noticeably increasing water flow.

If you drive slowly and sedately- like around town, an electric pump will work, but on the open road where a Pantera excels, the engine will get hotter and hotter, until you're forced to slow down. And if you have a modified engine, the overheating happens quicker. On a 150 mile trip to another city, one e-pump user could not exceed a steady 70 mph. And his e-pump needed firewall mods to fit. If you're driving in a pack of friends, they will get tired of waiting for you.

A stock iron pump weighs 16 lbs while an aluminum aftermarket one that pumps the same volume weighs 8 lbs. The stock cast iron pump pulley weighs 3 lbs while an aluminum one weighs less than a pound. Pulleys are easy to make on a small lathe, in any ratio you like to tune pump cavitation out.

@LeMans850i posted:

No worries, I got them from last time… 😂

i’m sorry…  I couldn’t resist 🤪

Wow! I never suspected? Call me!

@panteradoug posted:

Wow! I never suspected? Call me!

Yeah… Rocky got the goods….😂

One person has an issue with an electric water pump and it becomes folklore!

50 cubic feet/min = 375 gal/min, unless you are towing a water bowser no pump you can fit in your Pantera will deliver that!

Overheating is typically in traffic with low to no flow over the radiator and engine idling i.e. mechanical pump at slow rpm. This is where an electric booster pump coupled with a PWM controller is a real benefit. At highway speeds the combination of higher RPM and airflow over the radiator should not lead to overheating, or you have other issues.

I did exactly what Peter is proposing on a GT40 stripped out the guts of a mechanical water pump welded over the shaft hole and installed an electric pump to eliminate the engine intrusion into the cabin. But personally I prefer the combination of mechanical with an electric booster and Davies Craig booster is a flow through pump so ideal for that application.

First of all , thanks for the answers and of course the sexy legs 😃

About the gallons of water with a mechanical Pump:

You do Not need this!

We have Drift Cars and street  Cars ( Most of them with whipple charged Ls7 engineer) with only one Davis Craig Pumps and this works perfect.

Even I think that  Georg Pence have written in a old thread that the Waterpump is inefficient abouve 3500rpm because the water pass to fast the Radiator. The only Point is : how could this thing works in a Cleveland?  Normaly I would say : Close the Bypass and it should Work?! 

But I know some Mustang drivers smoked theire exhaust valves , so I am a little bit affraid to try it.

Joules : yes it works perfect in combination!

I did exactly what Joules just mentioned; an electric booster at the outlet of the rad., combined with a mechanical pump. I used a Stewart electric pump because if they fail, they fail "open". I never thought it was possible for a Pantera's cooling system to work so well. I did this on the advice of Stewart Components, who make very high performance mechanical water pumps for NASCAR, etc. They thought, pumping coolant through the Pantera's 20' of tubing was too much to ask of any mechanical water pump. They thought it must cavitate badly at higher RPMs. Their suggested solution was an electric booster pump. They also said to remove as much restriction to flow as possible. Interestingly, they advised against multi-pass radiators, as they created too much restriction.   

Peter, if you are determined to go the electric pump route, you might consider using two of them. One at the motor and a second at the outlet of the rad. Speak to the manufacturer first. A second pump might be completely unnecessary. I have heard it's best to remove the thermostat when using an electric water pump. The PWM controller simply runs the pump at it's slowest speed until the engine reaches normal operating temperature. From there, it speeds up or slows down the pump to maintain a stable coolant temperature. That's the theory anyway! If you were to do that, with a 351C, you'd need to block off the bypass. 

OK Friends, winter is coming and I hope to get some free time in my Workshop to get the Davis Craig Pump as main Water Pump running. As I remember the Water Pump Pumps the Water Out of the Block?! I try to find a Water flow diagram, but it is hard to find something.  But to answere the last post: No on our Drift Cars the Water Pump is running at full Power as a stand alone Pump . The pwm Controller is a nice function but works Not .

2 Pumps make sense parallel not seriell to increase the hydraulic diameter

Back to the Cleveland:

When I block the Thermostate Plate the Water runs only at the big cooling system, but on the other hand, in Standart working condition the Thermostate never blocks it 100 percent. So by removing the Thermostate would it make sense to Drill a hole in the "block-plate"?

Thanks

Peter, why do you want to switch from a mechanical to an electric water pump?

I added an electric water pump as a booster, at the outlet of the radiator. I ran it at full speed, whenever the engine was running. It lowered coolant temps a bit but the most interesting effect was, it stabilized coolant temps. Rather than the coolant temp rising and falling, it remained at a constant temp and seemed less affected by ambient temperature or driving conditions. An engineer at Stewart Components told me, the efficiency of a cooling system is directly proportional to coolant flow.

I did use PWM to control the speed of my cooling fans and also had my Holley ECU disable the fans above 45 mph.

I am very interested in seeing how and where you install the Davies Craig pump. Please post photos.

i have the davies Craig 150 in the lower house at the radiator going to the mechanical water pump.

i drilled three 1/8” holes in the thermostat near the gasket (the extra hole beacause the gasket will cover a small portion) the directions call for two.

i measured the actual open temperature of the thermostat and even though it was stamped 160, it opens at 180. control is set for 190

the control is mounted by my left leg on the control cover

the pump does over amp and i can’t really figure out why.

please post your experience

Dan