512 BB Anyone ?

Wow, Bohdan. You sure like looking for trouble.

Driveability?
- think Mazda
Handling?
- Lotus
Acceleration?
- Taurus
Ergonomics?
- your glider
Baggage room?
- half your Pantera
Servicing?
- not by you
Costs of ownership?
- yuppie expensive

PM Adams Hudson on this board. I believe he has one.

I've heard the engine was mounted a bit high in them and affected handling. David makes an important point about the maintenance - I knew I was getting a Pantera, but I still looked at some other cars during my research to get a sense for where pricing was headed, and Ferrari maintenance costs came up a lot as an issue.

I'd had some comments on the aesthetics of the 512, but that's a personal opinion and I don't think would really help you in your decision ... so I'll stick with what I think is the best thing you can do before jumping into such a purchase.

Based on my experience with researching and buying the Pantera - I'd highly recommend you take time to read the community blogs - I initially read reviews that highlighted the challenges of the Pantera, but after reading the blogs/forums, I found that there was a community of passionate owners who not only talked about how they updated their cars, but were actively helping each other and no problem is too minor, if someone knows the answer, they post it. If the Ferrari 512BB crowd isn't the same, I think you'd be disappointed in the long run.

I recently sold my 512BBi. It was a very nice car but is a completely different beast then the Pantera. Pantera think American Muscle car performance and maintenance while the Ferrari is fast out on the highway but no acceleration compared to the Pantera and cost of maintenance is super high. You cant work on them yourself like the Pantera. There is no luggage room to speak of (but you wouldnt take this car on trips i dont think). All this aside there is still something to be said about the sound of that 12 cylinder Ferrari and the respect the car gets when you go places.

Hey Evod, I didn't realize you were a BB owner too. There's another guy "Murph" who is also in CA who has both. Hard to compare, but here goes...

For DavidB, I've seen very few Taurus hit 0-60 in 5.5 and do 174! But then again, the power delivery in the Boxer is super linear, long legged. The Pantera is a punch in the stomach raw kind of delivery.

Pantera is lots of torque and noise; the Boxer is just alarmingly fast when you look down (like I did about 30 minutes ago) and you're doing 90.

To me, the Pantera always SEEMS to be going faster than it is; the Ferrari actually IS going faster.

Ride quality, no comparison. Pantera more hard edged (lots of contact patch too, so let's be fair) plus a lot of motor weight back there. Ferrari soaks bumps, but is more of a 'leaner'than the Pantera. Short story: Pantera handles better. Boxer cruises better.

Ergonomics? Next question.

Trunk space? Pantera kicks it here. The Boxer is a pain in the patootie to even open up the front trunk, which will hold like, two socks folded properly. The Pantera eats luggage and stuff. (The BB has a LOT more room behind the seats than a Pantera, but that ain't saying much.)

Interior quality - Ferrari wins by a landslide. Stuff fits, twists, works, is neater, tighter and all that. Remembering that the Pantera was $12grand new and the Boxer was $35grand or something, it had BETTER be better.

The Pantera has the stupidest stock seats ever put in to a supercar. Ever. But the 'quality' elsewhere is fine. I mean, even though its vinyl covered, things fit pretty well (I've had both interiors completely out). The F car is a lot more comfortable.

Far as reliability, hard to say. Sure, the Ford bits are bullet proof and/or cheap when they break, but man, the Pantera takes a lot more "engineering rethink" AND parts that aren't that much cheaper. I've spent a ton getting the Pantera's ac to work; the Ferrari not a dime. Just replaced the starter and solenoid on the Ferrari - both rebuilt for $125.

The 'motor out' belt service on the Ferrari is a major, major ordeal. Receipt on mine (before I got it thank goodness) was $27,000. When the motor's out, you just do stuff. Rebuild both alternators, do the water pump, blah blah.

The Pantera is a very user-friendly car. You can work on it, get to stuff better, and its not intimidating at all. Honestly, I think the build qualty of the Ghia body is every bit as good as Scaglietti's on the BB. The F car is a bit tighter on body tolerances, but what the hey. They both work and fit together quite well.

But the BB is the last of the hand-hammered cars, built largely by hand, and has the ridiculously smooth flat 12 humming in your ear. A treat in most every sense.

The Pantera - to me - is actually a bit more fun to drive. Yet the values and respect seem to parallel each other. The Boxer is of course worth maybe 4 times a Pantera, or perhaps 3.5, condition to condition. This multiple is probably consistent in the LONG RANGE maintenance, but I haven't paid it yet.

So, take your pick. Or just get both.

Okay.....
Yes I have a 84BBI,
So many coments, the Boxer out accelerates the the Pantera , out corners the pantera , and faster than the pantera, and comparing your stock pantera to stock the Ferrari the Ferrari is such a precision refined machine. I can drive the Boxer at a 150mph, if I had the track of course, all day long and the Boxer will not care. Not with the pantera, Cleveland stock 6000 rpm for how long before it goes boom.
I have turned down offers of 189k for mine, it is worth 6 times a stock narrow body.
Engine out service if done, 10k for a non maintaned or sitting car, which was mine, 10k because as mentioned, I did everything with the engine out. from here on after because I use the car...they are 5k services every 8 years or 30k miles.
I have added Tubi, 3pc compomotive racing wheels, 17x8, 17x10, MSD ignition ( the stock ignition whines loud and not to reliable)

I love the GT5, but I get in the Boxer and it's such a ride, freinds have been in both for hard, very hard runs, corners, drag, oh...and brakes! the Boxer is far superior

A very close freind of mine has been in the Ferrari business for 35 years and always said, for the most part, it cost $100 a month to own a ferrari. Do the math, 5000.00 service once ever 5yrs for say a 355 or a 360, 8 yrs for a boxer. 5-8 yrs or 30,000miles which ever one comes first.
Hmm, 5-8 yrs of maintenence on a new chevy truck, brakes, oil changes, rear end , posi fluid, 15k service, 30k service, tires, 45k service, brakes again, 60k service, add that up over 5-8 years. yes you drive it more, and it costs more than a ferrari, not to mention your chevy depriciated !!!! to what?
your ferrari went way north!!
That said , you have to buy right.
There are Boxers for sale for under a 100k, 125k, some are floating around 150k, 185k etc.
Pedigree is everything in a ferrari period.
who owned, who serviced it, miles, proper storage, proper timely services,
Back to service, sucks to wright a check for 5-10k every 5-8 yrs depending on your model, soooo, put a 100 bucks every month in a coffee can every month and when the time comes who cares, it's equity and painless.
Sorry for rambling,

Daniel

First of all, the BB is one of the best looking Ferraris IMHO.

Before buying a Pantera I looked at the 365 GTC/4, mostly for it's looks. I joined a Ferrari Forum, to get information and tips, before buying. I didn't get much help though, maybe because I was not an owner yet, maybe they have too many wannabees, Ferraris sometimes attract the strangest people. I remember when I told some of my colleagues that I was in the market for a Ferrari or a Pantera, many of them said "If you buy the Ferrari, I want a ride". They knew nothing about the cars, just that they would like to be able to say that they had driven in a Ferrari...

Currently I own the Pantera (and a Longchamp) and my best friend took "the other route", bought a 348. Driving our cars, they are very similar, except mine is definetely most noisy. When he drives behind me with his targa off, he says he can't hear his own engine

My friend is a capable mechanic like me, but because of resale value he lets Ferrari dealer do the service. I could buy an engine for that amount... In May he was unfortunate enough to bend a rear fender on the track. Insurance is paying, but engine needed to come out, so it was straightening+painting+service job. The car is not ready yet, he lost all summer Had it been me, I would have fixed it myself.

I tried to encourage him saying that there will be a few good days to drive even in November, but he says that the roads are too damp. I drive my Pantera in any non-rain condition.

My conclusion is that if you can fix cars yourself, don't have money to burn, like driving instead watching it in the garage and don't care about impressing other people, then the Pantera is best. Just my $0.02

As I saw in an article on this topic "The Ferrari is like marrying a prima ballerina. The Pantera is like dating a stripper. Who do you think has the most fun??"

quote:

"The Ferrari is like marrying a prima ballerina. The Pantera is like dating a stripper. Who do you think has the most fun??"

The guy who's "doing" them both!

Kudo's to my friends here who have and enjoy both. I'm glad we share the same passion!

Hi B.G.

Funny how many people I know that own both a 365/512BB and a Pantera.
I have a '74 L and a '83 512BBi.

At first glance the two cars seem similar.
They should, they share the same mid engine design philosophies from the early seventies but one was designed as an entry level exotic and the other was a no expense spared design to be the top dawg in its day.
This accounts for the difference in fit, finish, performance and detail.

You asked about the following:

Drive ability?
Boxer has the Pantera on this one. The Ferrari has a much more refined ride as opposed to the raw ride of the Detomaso. Both are fun but your body will be much more relaxed at the end of a long drive in the BB.

Handling?
Again got to give it to the 512. I run both up in the Angeles Crest mountains here in Los Angeles and I can definitely push the Boxer father before my knuckles turn white.

Acceleration?
The Pantera sounds like it is accelerating like a bat out of hell but the Boxer is the faster car albiet with a much more reserved display.

Ergonomics?
Boxer wins hands down here,
Leather interior is top notch.
Seats are really comfortable and supportive.
Driving position is far superior, your feet are actually not offset!
And visibility to the rear is excellent for a mid engine car.

Baggage room?
Detomaso has a slight edge here but I've got the original leather 2 piece luggage set that came with my Ferrari. Both are good size bags that hold enough for two people on a weekend outing. One goes behind the seats and the other fits in the front boot. I must say there is no way I could carry a Beer Keg in the Boxer like I did in the Pantera though.

Servicing?
You've got a power plant in the Boxer that has rubber timing belts that have a finite life cycle and must be replaced. It involves an engine out service and this is your 8 year recurring expense. One other advantage for the Pantera is the long life cycle of the model and all the excellent after market vendors. This is lacking for the Ferrari and as a result a lot of the parts are now made out of unobtanium a really expensive metal!

Costs of ownership?
You have the belt service with the Ferrari and the cost of hard to get parts that create bigger service costs but when you factor in car values the Ferrari is actually cheaper to own. I have had my Pantera for 23 years and when I add the original purchase price and costs over those years I just about break even with its value today. The Boxer I purchased 4 years ago has more than doubled in value easily offsetting any service costs with money to spare.

If you are seriously seeking out a BB check out the Boxer section of Ferrarichat. You will find that the Boxer crowd is a little atypical for Ferrari owners. We are not the coveted car model as of yet and as a result you will find, what I believe, is a group of owners that are into the car and not the myth. Plenty of owners on the site posting detailed step by step articles on home engine rebuilds, new rubber and wheel swaps, electrical upgrades, air conditioning mods and even a couple hot Boxer resto mods! Much like what you see here. But with a lot more originality questions thrown in

If you are blessed with ability two own both I highly recommend it. You will have the biggest grin on your face no matter which car you leave the garage in!

I do need to leave you with my wife's statement on her first ride in the Boxer "Why the hell did you get this thing? It's just like the Pantera!"