74 Pantera sold at Monterey

Russo & Steele had a very clean and nicely updated (from what little could be seen) grabber blue 74 Pantera that sold for $49500 at their Monterey auction. Sorry, didn't take a photo and it must have been a late consignment as it's not on their website.

Not a show car like many on display at Concorso, but pretty nice. Looks like prices are going up a bit (IMHO).
Original Post
Thank you Mark for this report. We believe prices have been moving consistently upward and especially on good cars. We expect that a controversey will be started shortly by one journalist who is critical of "high" prices on Panteras. You should be learning about this shortly. I believe that a vocal but small minority of owners have some type of beef with owners who try to get top dollar for their Panteras, even though they seldom recover what they have invested. Sadly, one of these owners is using his pulpit to launch his opinion. I look forward to learning what the reaction will be of our members and visitors to this Bulletin Board. Dave
Classic lines, brute American power, easy to work on, thrill of driving, limited production, "clean and nicely updated" for under 50 grand.........yeah I think Panteras are over priced, maybe would should just crush them and and save ourselfs from this foolish past time of ours. For those that think Panteras are over priced, go buy yourself a Porsche, or a Ferrari. IMHO this board has no room for Pantera haters, to the seller of the grabber blue 74 " good for you" .
I think the Pantera has been undervalued for some time.
You cannot beat the look & performance of this type of car vs others.
I still think many in the classic sports cars world still look down on the Pantera and can see no justification to prices like the one referenced here.
Especialy with Ford re-introducing the GT. It has created an awareness of powerfull mid-engine exotics. The Pantera is selling for one third what that vehicle is and I have seen some Panteras on these pages that would blow that GT away. At least on paper.
The more I think about it the madder I am getting. Dave give me the name and addy of that guy. I need to break someones legs.
quote:
Originally posted by Whiplash:
Thank you Mark for this report. We believe prices have been moving consistently upward and especially on good cars. We expect that a controversey will be started shortly by one journalist who is critical of "high" prices on Panteras. You should be learning about this shortly. I believe that a vocal but small minority of owners have some type of beef with owners who try to get top dollar for their Panteras, even though they seldom recover what they have invested. Sadly, one of these owners is using his pulpit to launch his opinion. I look forward to learning what the reaction will be of our members and visitors to this Bulletin Board. Dave


Dave,
Where will this report be posted?

Kevin
A pantera is what it is. A 31+ year old car. Great looks and effortless performance plus Italian brio make the pantera one of the most fabulous world cars ever powered by Ford. Why would anybody bad mouth the car especially an owner of one? #7260
quote:
Originally posted by Whiplash:
I have not seen the actual magazine but I have seen the editorial. It will appear in POCA Profiles, written by Editor Mike Drew.


Mike Drew?? Mike Drew is badmouthing Panteras??? I can't believe my eyes.
There was no bad-mouthing Panteras. His editorial will concern what he views as ridiculous prices for Panteras set by PI Motorsports. I do not believe the piece was supported by current market data and PI Motorsports was not contacted for our view until after the editorial went to press. Asking prices are set by the owners of cars on consignment at PIM and are not always the actual selling prices. As I have said in the past, often times the most negative individuals regarding Panteras pricing are some Pantera owners. Now that the issue is surfacing, this can be examined and debated by the membership. When Mustangs and Camaros bring more than Panteras (not the real rare models), I hardly believe our cars are overpriced.
Heck, no one sets prices. It is a free market and the prices will go up and down based on supply and demand. PI is offering the community a valuable service. You can not sell a panetera for more than someone is willing to pay and you can not buy one for less than what someone will sell. This is America damn it, not communist Cuba or whatever. We all set the price, not the government or some aristocratic class of morons.
Give me his address. I need to pound some sense in to him.
I'd have to agree with DeTom. The price is seriously influenced by marketing. If you advertise locally or in a club newsletter you've got a smaller audience. Even the PI/POCA magazines only have around 1000 members (+/-). PI happens to have the most visible showroom and website of all the vendors for Pantera's. I bought my car in a remote town in AZ. The previous owner was advertising in a national magazine (Autoweek) for several months and had lots of calls and interest but no visits. Had he taken his car to PI it would have sold much faster and for at least 10k more than I could have afforded! Yes you can do better than the price at PI but it takes time, effort, and lots of research. For new owners it's often harder to get started because they haven't made the connection to POCA, PI, and local clubs. That's where the best help can come from when searching for the "right" car. i.e. I have a friend of a friend who know of a car thats...

P.S. The articule was reasonably presented...

thanks Rick
quote:
Originally posted by Whiplash:
Thank you Mark for this report. We believe prices have been moving consistently upward and especially on good cars. We expect that a controversey will be started shortly by one journalist who is critical of "high" prices on Panteras. You should be learning about this shortly. I believe that a vocal but small minority of owners have some type of beef with owners who try to get top dollar for their Panteras, even though they seldom recover what they have invested. Sadly, one of these owners is using his pulpit to launch his opinion. I look forward to learning what the reaction will be of our members and visitors to this Bulletin Board. Dave


Dave,
All I'll say is if a man can't appreciate a fine looking woman pictured next to Italian exotica, he loses much credibility with me.

Razzer
Josh
Thanks Mark for your observation. I hope this is the interpretation other readers get. My concern is that this was an opinion piece that I believe was unsupported by up to date market data and that PIM was not given a chance to give our side. PIM has been selling Panteras for nearly 10 years and has probably sold more in recent years than any other dealer. I am unfamiliar with the author's sales experience but believe he has not sold many cars or worked with owners that have invested 50-100K in their cars and hope to recover a good part of it. A blanket conclusion that Panteras bring 35K is without value when none of the assets the car has or doesn't have are articulated.

However, if the typical owner concludes after reading the editorial that when it comes time to sell, go to PI Motorsports to receive top value, then, the article serves a useful purpose. The author could have also made his point without singling out PI Motorsports. Has anybody ever checked on the prices that Hall Pantera, Wilkinson's and Pantera Performance have obtained for their customers? Some research would have been more helpful than the published conclusions which are devoid of any meaningful statistics such as those presented on this BB.

I have 31 years of experience with Panteras as an owner, publisher, dealer, chapter President, event organizer, racer and you name it. I believe I am engaged with the Pantera community well enough to state that the article was a low blow and represents outdated and wishful and magical thinking. Wouldn't it be nice if we could buy a real Cobra for $35K? Dave
Well Dave some people get a little out of touch with how much things cost. Sometimes they get sticker shock. So if you give me Mikes address I will re-aquint him with current costs of medical treatment. It may have been awhile since he visted the emergency room and he may be out of touch with that too. Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by Cyboman:
That's funny DeTom!

Maybe the author (or someone close to him) is currently in the market for a Pantera and he wants to keep it depressed until he gets one. Just a thought.

Michael


Yeah right up until the time he wants to sell it, then all of a sudden the rattest Pantera on earth is worth it's weight in gold. Heck did the guy write an article on the price of gas being too much?? A lot of good that does. Does it have any effect on price?? No. There is one reason and one reason only that our Panteras are priced WAY TOO LOW (and they are) and that is that people do not know about them. If the general public knew what a bargin these cars are, none of us would have them. Rich people would force us to sell them to them. Panteras too high??? Are you nuts?? Too much to maintain?? Heck a 308 Ferrai timing belt will cost five thousand bucks. A timing chain for a Pantera?? Thirty bucks. I have a stake in this. I don't want my car to go too high because then I will be too tempted to sell, and if I do, what the hell am I going to do??? All my friends know me as Deto. I am my car!! I have no personality with out it. I am nothing. I will have no reason to live. No, Panteras are worth a LOT more than what they are selling for. And if word ever gets out, we are all doomed. DOOMED I tell ya!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Whiplash:
Some research would have been more helpful than the published conclusions which are devoid of any meaningful statistics such as those presented on this BB.

I have 31 years of experience with Panteras as an owner, publisher, dealer, chapter President, event organizer, racer and you name it. I believe I am engaged with the Pantera community well enough to state that the article was a low blow and represents outdated and wishful and magical thinking. Wouldn't it be nice if we could buy a real Cobra for $35K? Dave


Dave,

How about a rebuttal piece in the PI quarterly that's based on PIM's recent sales?

It's a shame you were singled out and not given an opportunity to defend yourself. Although I don't know you personally, you and Linda come across as classy folks.

Josh
Thanks Josh. Linda and I are not above criticism. Like they say, if you fly too close to the sun, you are going to get singed sooner or later. There hasn't been as much reaction to the editorial as I thought there would be. I have received a few emails and telephone calls from members. I have discussed the article with Mike and I understand his motivation better than I did originally. Linda believes the article will reach owners of Panteras more than people looking for Panteras and as a result, the conclusion an owner should reach is that if you want top dollar for your car, go to PI Motorsports. As a matter of practicality, it is harder for us to sell cars at higher prices than if we simply "low-balled" them out at lower prices. It is the owners who establish prices and make the market. When we opened our doors in 1996, you could buy a decent car for $25K. Now it will take $35K to get an average car. Above average cars (defined elsewhere on this BB) will cost at least $5K-10K more. The recent auction at Russo & Steele is evidence of this. Similar prices were also reached at the B&J Auction in Scottsdale in January. Each owner should price their car where they are comfortable. If you are willing to let your car go at below market prices, you are to be commended and it is fortunate for the buyer. We have no problem with that, but please, do not suggest that all owners should follow the same path. It is an individual choice and PI Motorsports simply follows the instructions of our sellers when it comes time to market their cars. Respectfully, Dave and Linda

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