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Chassis 1388. One of the earliest square handle cars. Appears to have been last registered in 1975. Odometer reads about 9700 miles. It has the "pushbutton" style rear wheel houses. The ZF and shift linkage are missing. It is also missing one of the "single slot" Campagnolo front wheels.

The gentleman who found the car is interested in purchasing the car from the owner and flipping it to make a little money. He hasn't purchased it yet, he doesn't know what to offer the current owner. What do you guys think its worth?

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George,

Take a look at this car on Chuck Melton's site, it was offered for sale in 2010 and has not been in that barn for that long!

I would expect such a low chassis number to have a flat rear decklid, for some reason it does not. It shows signs of significant rust and even in today's market I'd be hard pushed to pay $10K for it.

Julian
Without the trans theres a ton of money to be spent on that one to get her up and running unless the guy is well connected and has some skills.

That said - I'd give him US10K and then pay to ship it over here for some of the parts on it to put on mine initially and then see what the body has to offer as a loooooong term project.

Serious offer on that btw.
Hi George -

You probably know this better than the rest of us, but you have discerning aficionados here.

It's possible that your buyer could pick it up for a price that "we think" is outrageous, and still be able to make a few $$ on it, if he finds the right buyer who is in a frenzy to get his hands on a Pantera.

That person will dump large amounts of money into it, gradually moving the car up a level, but never able to complete it, and it will sell as an unfinished project. The cycle may continue, OR one of our skilled European brethren will eventually snap it up and complete it.

I am sure you see the work that has to be done on the car, as well as the replacement or refurbishment of nearly every component / interior / trim item on it.

And then finding a good ZF / flywheel / clutch for about 10 - 12K, and another 10K for a good motor or a rebuild (I would not hold out much hope for the engine in the car as I look at it)....

It looks like a big project. But people have tackled bigger ones.

If I had $200K (and wanted to end up with a $125K car) - I'd buy it, and send it to one of the build houses to complete!

Just my $.02

Rocky
Probably more for a collector that would just park it in their collection or museum as is, with dirt and everything. Wash it and will probably lose value. Must be original and authentic 40 year dirt though, ha ha. In other words, like an old piece of antique furniture with a story, don't touch it. Once you mess with it, it just becomes another restored Pantera. In other words, probably best for the one in a million oddball collector or speculator who wants it as is, especially if it has a good story with it. But based on some discussion, it seems it may have been messed with already. I believe Barrett Jackson recently had such a car (not Pantera), with original dust and original moss growing on it, authenticated by fossle experts. Ha ha, just kidding about the experts, but they did have such a car at an auction, but not sure how it did as I wasn't bidding. But I admit it would actually look pretty cool in a museum right next to an immaculately restored Pantera. Kind of like the weight loss commercial "before & after".
Depending on where it is, we DO want it for a museum, and "just as is" is fine.

If the owner might be interested in seeing it on display in exchange for a tax deduction, we could give it a home at Motorama Auto Museum, Ltd., a 501(c)(3) Non-profit Charitable Organization. (For the sake of full-disclosure, I'm on the board of directors.)

If the car is repairable, it could be restored and displayed indoors. We also have a "bone yard" featuring many unusual cars that are beyond feasibly restoring.
https://www.facebook.com/Motorama.Auto.Museum/

Many times the bluebook value is higher than an actual sale vale. It can be a win-win situation when the owner gets more and a significant vehicle is displayed to the public. Just an option...

Thanks,
Paul
http://www.alfaheaven.com/Catalog/MtrRmaPostr.html
I personally saw a similar car go at auction WITH the engine and ZF for $3800. The condition looks about the same.

It was an impound yard and the car was an unclaimed theft recovery.

EVERYTHING on the car was questionable.

The auctioneer was a friend and told me to come to get the car cheap. He didn't realize about 100 people had shown up for the Pantera alone?

I'd speculate that the current owner got it for $500 and that is why he didn't care to protect it from rotting out.

His problem, not mine.

When these cars are rusty, they are not for a novice and unfortunately may no longer be for anyone else.

Everything dies eventually.

Really a shame.
A back-east POCA member had a rust-magnet like that & the Chapter helped to make it into a track car. That 'unreliable' rat has made many, many laps around Pocono racetrack with a dozen drivers during the club's yearly open track events. This one could become a 'renta-ride' for some group rather than stripping it. Remember that Mangusta that was rolled a decade ago thats now a real road racer? ANYTHING can be fixed if you're not in a hurry & you have friends.
I agree w/that. My car is no garage queen, in fact I think most owners would say it needs a resto. There is a small 2" spot of bubble under the door, it has a few switch holes in the int ect... But, I drive every day, I'm getting ready to leave in it now, I aint scared to get caught in the rain ( I try not to) I let my friends and their kids drive it. How many of us dreamed of a test ride in Pantera when we were 16 !... Yeah, I guess my car is a bit of a beater. But it has 450HP at the wheels and I have fun in it just about every day and I highly recommend this approach !...
Hi Espen! I hope all is well.

The Ford era Panteras had rear wheel houses that were very rounded, one piece stampings. Of course the 9000 series cars had very squared-off rear wheel houses, flat surfaces & sharp creases only.

The pushbutton wheel houses were in between those two extremes. Somewhat rounded, but they had one very sharp seam at their rear-most edge. The picture below may help:

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It would be great to see it brought back to life. And while it may need a lot of work and time I have seen some guys here on this forum with the know how to fix the bodywork (and more) themselves. With some new panels and lots of elbo grease I'm sure 15K will well and truly sort out body work. A new ZF is 13K and new engine 8K. That is still well under the 75k+ it will be worth afterwards. I think 10K is not a big ask if not more.
A project that had been long term parked in a field bid up to $28K on eBay recently, before being pulled and sold off line. Admittedly it had a supposed inspection verifying minimal rust and was complete (with about same mileage). That was an astounding number for such a huge undertaking, here are my thoughts on why we see such numbers;

There are a large number of potential owners who would get a Pantera if they could afford one, that populous has likely grown of late with increasing prices of our cars. Thus, I would postulate project cars appeal to the group, who want a Pantera and this is the only way of being able to afford to get into one.

Cars at this price range (despite condition) are few in numbers which can reflect in some fierce competition, resulting in strong bidding and the car goes for more than 'we' think it should.

At the time of purchase the restoration cost maybe somewhat immaterial to these types of buyers in their desire to own a Pantera knowing that those restoration costs can be spread over months, years or decades, but they are on the ownership ladder.

This particular car is the type of thing I'd expect to see at Alex Manos' Beverly Hills Car Club, in fact it might be worth your friend showing Alex some photos and getting an estimate.

Julian
quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
A project that had been long term parked in a field bid up to $28K on eBay recently, before being pulled and sold off line. Admittedly it had a supposed inspection verifying minimal rust and was complete (with about same mileage). That was an astounding number for such a huge undertaking, here are my thoughts on why we see such numbers;

There are a large number of potential owners who would get a Pantera if they could afford one, that populous has likely grown of late with increasing prices of our cars. Thus, I would postulate project cars appeal to the group, who want a Pantera and this is the only way of being able to afford to get into one.

Cars at this price range (despite condition) are few in numbers which can reflect in some fierce competition, resulting in strong bidding and the car goes for more than 'we' think it should.

At the time of purchase the restoration cost maybe somewhat immaterial to these types of buyers in their desire to own a Pantera knowing that those restoration costs can be spread over months, years or decades, but they are on the ownership ladder.

This particular car is the type of thing I'd expect to see at Alex Manos' Beverly Hills Car Club, in fact it might be worth your friend showing Alex some photos and getting an estimate.

Julian


I agree.

I saw the same thing happen with Cobras. They jumped from around $10,000 to around $40,000 in the 1975 to 1978 time period.

All of a sudden, wrecks and various kinds of basket cases started appearing for sale at around $25,000 to $30,000.

It is a VERY similar scenario to the Panteras now.

People seemingly forever are willing to OVER pay for a basket case simply to get their foot in the door before EVERYTHING is completely out of their reach.

I think this is all just a symptom of the cars seemingly overnight rise of double or triple what they WERE (past tense) selling for a year or two ago?

Overpaying for these basket case is part of the syndrome that pushes them all higher. Cause and effect.

It probably would be a good idea to get on board now BEFORE this becomes a run away train?

I would just post this car for sale and get whatever I could for it.

NO ONE really knows what it will bring or how long it will take to sell it.

"YOU" are asking us all to predict the future based upon the past.

I think that is as accurate as Johnny Carson doing "Karnak the Magnificent" on the old "Tonight Show"?
This car has three issues:
severe rost
no engine
and even worse no gear box

and ok a small issue:
rim missing

Its worth what it is worth, beverly hills would add it to his "never sell" collection he has with the wite the red one. He will attach a mustang gearbox as he often does, god alone knows what to do with this in a pantera. Wink
It all depends on who wants to buy it. A car like this would be more appealing to a shop, that has the staff and can invest direct costs to upgrade it, versus the casual owner that would need to hire a shop and pay the mark-up. I (a casual owner) would not pay more than $10K for it. Some of you may remember I bought a project beater with lots of rust back in 2008 for $10,000 and after three weeks of cleaning and picture taking, I sold it on eBay for $18,000. With the "potential" to sell this car for ~$80K, a shop could make some money. I would list between $15-$18K and see what happens. The market is HOT and its no secret.

Cheers!

-William
quote:
Originally posted by George P:
Hi Espen! I hope all is well.

....The pushbutton wheel houses were in between those two extremes. Somewhat rounded, but they had one very sharp seam at their rear-most edge. The picture below may help:

Thanks George. Can't complain.
I see. My PB must be pre that again. There's an ugly bulge at that seam on both sides. I've seen it on at least one other early car. Let's see if I can add a picture here...

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quote:
At the time of purchase the restoration cost maybe somewhat immaterial to these types of buyers in their desire to own a Pantera knowing that those restoration costs can be spread over months, years or decades, but they are on the ownership ladder.


That is so true, Julian. Even when you temporarily run out of money and your precious project car may stay untouched for several months, you can still feel that you own a Pantera and you can admire your very own Pantera. With enough imagination you can almost feel like already accelerating hard...
Neil Young famously quoted..."Rest Never Sleeps".

If so then this Pantera has a severe case of insomnia.

The discoloration on the body panel behind the driver's door to myself indicates a gas tank fire of some sort, thus maybe the reason for no transaxle.

I'd PASS on this example faster than a plate of 3 week old sushi!!!

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