Brake question.

Hi Guys,
My Pantera is #9193 a GTS that sat for 18 years. Bring it back to life while learning Panteras has been a task.
Question on the brakes is pedal travel. When I got the car the brakes were locked up.
Found all caliper Pistons frozen so Everything was disassembled, cleaned, inspected and resealed. Bleeding was a chore but after buying the Motive Products pressure bleeder I think I have the system purged. BTW, I found a referral for that tool here and it's a good one.
Since I have no reference point on pedal travel what would be considered acceptable ?
Also, I see that a 1983 # 9195 is listed. Since I was told that my car was probably a 1979 I am totally confused how that could be. Makes no sense plus 9195 has the earlier dash.
Any ideas or thoughts on the year my car may be. I've gotten nowhere trying to sort it out.
Thanks.
Original Post
All post-1980 build Panteras were hand built to order; the reformed company after Ford departed apparently did not build many on 'speculation'. So some Panteras likely took longer than others depending on what a customer spec'ed or the availability of parts, now being bought in much smaller quantity. I've given up trying to apply any sort of logic to DeTomaso build-dates vs serial numbers- even during the so-called 'Ford Era'. Too many things went on for any generalizations.
It's hard to define a pedal travel in script, does you pedal feel firm once applied? Can you lock up the wheels? Does it go down further if you keep it depressed for a time? Does it get firmer if you rapidly pump it?

My GT5 is #9178 and a 1981 which is in keeping with other 9,000 series cars years. 1979 would appear quite early for your car, more likely a 1981/2. Do you know the full history? The dashes on #9193 and 9195 both look the same on Provamo, they have the later larger heater registers with extra gauges on the dash. What do you mean by an earlier dash on #9195?

This was a transition period for De Tomaso probably using up Ford era parts. Later the e-brake moved to the driver side and the heater changed to a Maserati Biturbo unit.
Pedal travel: Distance from the pedal at rest point to where it stops moving. Mine is about 1.5 to two inches and firm.They feel good enough to drive but the car is on blocks.
Bleeding the brakes was a major pain. I tried everything plus and failed to get a solid pedal. I plugged the rear line at the master which gave me a solid pedal. So I pulled the rear calipers a second time and bench bled them. Found some trapped air.
I suspect air gets trapped in the hard lines going to the tee then gets pushed LFT to RHT then back depending on the caliper being bled. So you need a lot of flow / volume to push all the tiny bubbles out. The Motive pressure bleeder killed it in 30 minutes.
Tip,if you do a clipper reseal save the old dust boot retaining rings. The new ones suck. Soft metal.
I also found that the rear caliper attach bolts were short with maybe a three thread engagement at the spindle. I used a 1.5 inch bolt.

Yes, 9193 comes before 9195. I think, maybe with these S/N's. Two numbers equals two years makes little sense to me.
I think my car arrived in the USA around late 80 or early 81 so it can't (?) be an 82. Maybe again.
I need to contact the gentleman in Canada who tracked the 9000 series.
Get this, The brake linings looked original and good with the wear sensor wiring that still works.
Punkdog: When you say "resealed", are you saying new o-rings placed on the pistons? Also, are the lines from the steel brake lines to the calipers the old brake lines (black rubber) or the flexible stainless steel lines.
When changing my rubber lines to stainless steel, then bleeding the brakes, small particles of black rubber flowed with the brake fluid to where is was almost black brake fluid. Inside of black rubber appeared to be breaking off from the inside and plugging inside the calipers.
Kept bleeding the brakes until a clean fluid was visible.
The brake hoses were original and still in good condition as is all the rubber on this car. Go figure. Yes I replaced them with stainless for safety. No black partials and the fluid even looked good.
I had to completely tear down the calipers. Everything ! It took me days to free the pistons. Heat, mouse milk and low air pressure. Why they were frozen escapes me as there was only a minor amount of corrosion at the piston bases and the square o ring type seals looked good but I replaced them. Piston dust boots were like new once cleaned. They made better rubber back then.
I purchased a rebuilt $31.00 Dorman master cyl. on line that I knew had the same internals but chose not to use the parts. Made in China on the box and my aluminum master seals looked fine and bench tested good. I am not a fan of anything from Chinese junk peddlers.
I know how to bleed brake systems and chased air bubbles for days and failed until I used the pressure bleeder. Again, high volume beyond what my foot or squirt oil can can provide. Master to caliper and caliper to master failed.
This car with 16,000 miles of use sat covered in a golf course maintenance shed for 18 years. No rust or mice just inactivity.
The interior leather has been the biggest issue as it dried out. Took some time but it's now looking good. Pure and warm neatsfoot oil with elbo grease.
I'm taking my time with this car doing system by system and learning along the way as I know next to nothing about Panters.
Lucky for me is this forum and that the car is all original and unmolested aside from the stereo hacks who had a go at it. Kids with electrical tape I suspect.
Next is the fuel system. I need the rubber hose coupling that goes from the fuel filler neck to the tank. Any ideas would help.
Also confused by the lack of any idle stop solenoid at the Holley carb for the A/C.
Doesn't appear there ever was one.
Thanks guys.
...It's called 'Fuel Filler Hose', 2" I.D.. It comes in 3 Foot Lengths. You will find it at Any NAPA Auto Parts Store. Not Inexpensive. In California, I Believe it IS Compatible with the E85 Alcohol Mixture.

My '74L when Stock, Never had a Idle Stop/Increase, Solenoid!

Good-Luck with Your Project!

MJ
Thank you MJ.
I guess the A/C idle stop is one's right foot.
Love that simple and basic stuff.
How about the thermal vacuum retard switch on the pipe off the thermostat?
Doesn't appear that the one on my car was ever used.
I think I'll need it to get by a CA smog test.
Any thoughts ?

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