Skip to main content

I have some Brembo (Porsche 996 Turbo) caliper sets and a local shop makes adapters. The 996 Turbo is heavier and has a nearly identical weight distribution, so these should be an ideal caliper set for a Pantera. They require 13 inch rotors (1.25 and 1.10) and 17 inch wheels. These are really nice monoblock radial mount calipers, and at least one vendor uses them in a conversion and said they are better than calipers that come in the $8,000 Brembo kit. Unlike after market calipers, there is a large selection of pads for these. I am selling them for between $500 and $800 a set depending on appearance.
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

I stopped in last year to SACO and spoke to the young guy at the counter and he assured me that someone would call me and get me hooked up.   I left my name and phone number and didn't hear anything.   Then I gave a ring on the phone a few weeks later and that same young guy answered and I asked if the calipers, CV's, and rear uprights were available - oh yes was the answer and that I should expect to get a phone call - but I never did................

I am interested if these really do exist - but I would like to know a couple of things before I pay up for anything.   Can the CV axles be made up in 300M material and what are the choices for cages and rubber boots?   Is it possible to have the transaxle bolt pattern be the Porsche 930 output shaft pattern and the upright end fit the axle that will fit in your upright?   Also, can the rear Pantera uprights be had in 7075 material?   I'm a serious buyer - so if this is possible that would be great - thank you,  Mark

I'm probably the person who should have been given your information so I could have responded to your questions. I'll try my best to help you make the best decision for your requirements. Answering your listed questions: Yes the axles are available made with 300M at a cost 60 percent higher than 4340 Chro-Moly. 4340 is more than capable of handling twice the torque capability of a ZF transaxle. Output shafts from ZF transaxle to 930 CV Joints are available through SACC, RBT or possible others I don't know at this time. 4130 Chro-Moly cages almost double the strength of a standard 930 CV joint (discovered through off-road racing). 7075 uprights are available at a significant cost increase and was considered years ago when the uprights were redesigned for weight reduction. I can be reached at burrid1@netzero.net for additional information. Thanks for your interest. I had forgot about PI forms for 10 years, and glad to once again become a reader.

Just in case if some of you were wondering about the cost of this set up, it was very reasonable.  I purchased my calipers from European Auto Recycling for $1175.  Ed’s kit came with caliper brackets, rotors, and hats for $1430.  I purchased the brake pads from Renn Part for $195.   Total is $2800.  This could done cheaper with Ken’s calipers or if there are any deals on Ebay.  If you wanted brand new calipers Sunset Porsche is one of the dealers who has better prices.  The calipers are from a 996 TT.  Mine are from a 997 Carrera S which has the same part number as the 996 TT.  

All this was purchased in 2017 so I am not sure what the current prices are.

@davidnunn posted:

Jimmy,

What sizes of rotors are you using? Are the rotor hats the standard Wilwood Pantera hats? 

Thanks. 

I think what Ken posted is correct, if I remember correctly.  The sizes weren’t on my invoice.   I think they are about the same as what Porsche used on the 996 TT.  If I didn’t go with the Coleman’s, I would go with Performance Friction or Girodisc.  I found both companies nice to speak with.  One person at PF was willing to run a brake simulation for me to determine braking force with my master cylinder, calipers and rotors.

David, the master cylinder was installed in the early 90s that I bought from my friend who owned Wally’s Auto who used to restore Panteras.  My OEM master cylinder was going bad so he installed the one that I currently still have on the car.  I don’t know the bore sizes.  I thought that my friend who installed the brakes said that it had a 1” bore.  He removed the factory proportioning valve.  It still has the pb  booster.  From the limited amount of driving I have done over the last few months, I feel the pedal feel and effort is appropriate.  

Attachments

Images (2)
  • 9BECB9EE-5EE5-4B3F-88FD-77CDA90C5FA7
  • E81D6DB1-E5BD-4217-8A05-F5969C40F5AF
Last edited by jimmym

Thanks for the reply.

Not terribly priced, roughly the same as Massive Brakes Kit (Lee) for my other favorite marques.

In the event I cannot locate my calipers in storage, please shoot me a PM with the total package price with calipers and the kit you mentioned.

I already have a new GT4/GT5 master from Wilkinson on my bench along with the Corvette master cyl on the car now.  Do you recommend Wilwood or Brembo curved-vane vented, slotted discs?

Last edited by pantera2040

We don't carry Porsche calipers, only the parts required to use them on a Pantera.

Toured Brembo facility in early 2000 and immediately sold a set of (I believe) Sierra Calipers. Wilwood makes an excellent product and most Pantera owners use them. Don't think you would go wrong with either choice. If you can't find the calipers, Wilwood makes calipers rotors and hats for a matched set.

I've got a set of Brembos from the early 2000's. Both hats and rotors are designed to float. Rotors are drilled, slotted with curved vanes and attach to hats via 10 titanium pins. Pin clearance is based on max temperature of rotor. Rotors are designed to channel ducted air out through the vanes as well as into the hats. Hats are designed to channel air to the outside rotor caliper pads.

Check bore size on mater cylinder for compatibility with what ever system you decide to use. Let me know if I can be of further assistance

I'm pretty active in the Porsche community I'm sure I can piece together a set if I can't locate mine. This looks like a great option as the brakes on the turbo are fantastic. I also know of a guy in the 996TT club who makes longer hardened bolts and machined spacers so you can use 350mm vs 330mm rotors to increase swept area (uses the same pads) his kit would be a reasonable add on at $125.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, the kit you make is only for the fronts and the rears are kept stock? The 350MM works well on the TT because it fights brake fade (larger swept area) and at least purportedly improves stopping power since the area that the pad bites the disc is further from the axis. (I'm no engineer, would have to look that one up) in case I stated that wrong. I'm instaling the upgrade on my TT this weekend with EBC Orange Stuffs.

Last edited by pantera2040

Please forgive misunderstanding. We make parts for front and rear that use front and rear calipers from 996 TT. Completely agree with your thoughts on brake fade. Please share your thoughts and opinion on EBC Orange Stuff . Cold and hot performance. I used EBC Blue when I assembled the kit in 2011. Cold performance was better than expected. Planed to test at Wilkinson’s against other systems but transaxle failed before it happened.

I'd be happy to. I also have a set of Reds on my bench that I may use if the Oranges prove too difficult to heat up in the street. I drive "briskly" in sparsely populated/policed canyons and use a ******* amount of brake to scrub speed. We'll see. I will be using Sebro Slotted 350mm rotors.

So to confirm the kit you quoted is for 4 hats/pins and brackets?

From the beginning there’s been a number of conversations on how good is this system compared to others and I don’t know. If it doesn’t compare exactly as a 996, I would like to know why. Understand a Porsche 996 is a beautiful engineered piece of machinery and can’t be compared to a Pantera of any year. Only way to compare brake systems is place them on a brake dyno. I live in Southern California and StopTech has three brake dynos. Chief engineer there (if he’s still there) used to be a Pantera owner. I’ll look into settings up a test if someone with a different system shares the same interest. Note: Testing to failure normally sacrifices test items.

Front and rear Brackets, hats, related cap screws with stainless washers. Everything except rotors and bolts that secure hats to rotors. Hats have 8 bolt (clearance for 5/16 bolts) pattern on 7.625 diameter. Thanks for responding. Been looking for your experience and expertise. Please keep me informed of how your braking system works. Doesn’t matter if you buy the parts.

Happy to contribute. It's nice when someone puts together a partially DIY solution vs the default "call the vendors" I have 4 "fun" cars all in various stages of build and modification. My 1972  2002"M2" Street/Tarmac rally/hill climb project (E30 M3 S14 Motorsport engine, Ground control double adjustable suspension, BBK (to be purchased) and huge other list of mods has turned into an expensive project. The Pantera needs paint and bodywork from some vandalism, The '77 Carrera (well the Porsche tax) and the Turbo...all ads up. Fortunately, I don't have any kids.

So yes...Don't go out of business in the next 3-6 mos. I will be buying some parts!

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 84496276_10216045255539512_2355934035965902848_n
Last edited by pantera2040
@brother-bee posted:

From the beginning there’s been a number of conversations on how good is this system compared to others and I don’t know. If it doesn’t compare exactly as a 996, I would like to know why. Understand a Porsche 996 is a beautiful engineered piece of machinery and can’t be compared to a Pantera of any year. Only way to compare brake systems is place them on a brake dyno. I live in Southern California and StopTech has three brake dynos. Chief engineer there (if he’s still there) used to be a Pantera owner. I’ll look into settings up a test if someone with a different system shares the same interest. Note: Testing to failure normally sacrifices test items.

It's interesting to hear you mention StopTech because I'm using their calipers on my Pantera. Before Wilwood manufactured street versions of their calipers, the main reason to use Porsche, Brembo, Baer, StopTech, etc. calipers was, they had the "DOT required" dust and dirt seals around the pistons, so you could drive the car through a big puddle of muddy, salty water and after years of doing so, the calipers would stand up to it. Now that Wilwood makes weatherproof, "street" calipers, there isn't as much of a benefit to the more expensive Brembo style calipers. That being said, I've never heard of a failure of a Wilwood racing caliper, without dust and dirt seals, even after decades of them being used on daily driven Panteras.

Unfortunately, even with 996TT calipers and rotors, a Pantera won't stop as well as a 996TT.  The reasons are: lack of ABS and lack of anti-dive geometry in the front suspension. When you brake hard in a Pantera, the nose drops and the rear rises, which induces weight transfer and reduces traction (and braking potential) at the rear. This effect can be minimized through the careful selection of coil spring rates and shock absorber tuning, but it's nearly impossible to match the Porsche without some anti-dive in the suspension. Then there's the ABS...

I drive with the PASM off most of the time unless I'm in the wet where it has saved my ass more that a few times. The rest of my cars you threshold brake. My Pantera has been in storage a long time and  I've clocked a lot of seat time on wet weather rallies in 911s since, but you only have to pirouette once in a Pantera to learn to avoid the wet or getting on the power in the wet.

Honestly I’m not trying to make a statement like I’m a bad ass and I’m sure you have a lot more experience in high performance driving (I normally ride the bus). Don’t know about other Panteras but after heating EBC blue pads for testing. My Pantera bottomed out the front suspension. There’s obviously a number of factors involved in effective braking. What I hope get better informed about  is a braking systems ability to stop rotors from turning multiple times, even under extreme heat. Please forgive if you feel it’s directed towards you personally. My question has been if a braking system is better, what’s involved to make it better?

I didn't take it that way at all...my apologies if that was how I came across. George Pence for instance has forgotten more things about the Pantera and general automotive than I'll probably ever know.

I'm in the hamfisted "hare" group but I'm no badass...always someone smoother and faster. I'm just a hoon and a shade-tree mechanic and excited to collaborate and provide feedback on build vs buy performance upgrades and learn from the group.

Last edited by pantera2040
@brother-bee posted:

I’m also considering using SACC’s CV axle kit (on sale for 2K) along with their air shocks. SACC’s not far from where I live so I’ll just drive down to discuss. Who makes the R compound tires you plan to use.

Ike, I purchased my Koni adjustable coil overs from Dennis at Pantera Performance.  Dennis also had a few different offerings for CV axles.  I was going to put them on my car to fit the 3” exhaust pipes, but my friend was able to get the exhaust to fit with the factory axles.

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×