Broken Deals

Had a similar experience purchasing real estate. Patience and effort win out in the end. The good news is your loan is ready, so next time you call to talk to somebody about his Pantera-for-sale, the first question you ask is 'who am I speaking with' and write it down. Make sure he's the owner, of course. Then, when you go to look at it, do a mental mark down of a few $00's or $,000's and keep that as cash in your shoes. Have the bank make out a certified check to him, in his name, and he doesn't even know this, but you got his name for that reason. You also have a blank bill-of-sale with you and you're ready to deal, Turbo Tim! Close the deal, if it's the right car you want to keep. If it's not the right car, just be polite and don't even ask to drive it, you can just take the certified checkback to your bank and for a very small fee, they re-deposit it in your account, and you're ready to go for the next potential deal. Sellers don't like to hear about loans going through.

You'll probably have so much time and money in your Pantera, that you'll never sell it. And, the inflation factor will balance out, so if you want to sell, you'll recover at least your entire expenditures for the Pantera and the upgrades and maintenance. So, therefore, it's a good investment,and those type of transactions take time and patience. It's a good experience to get the right Pantera. I saw another owner complaining of the deal falling through because the buyer backed out, and he complained on this BB, a couple of years ago. It took a while to sell it, so timing is everything. They are kind of like Harley Davidson motorcycles, easier to sell in the spring time, and very unique - each and every one. The right deal will come along! Never give up!

When I buy something, I usually know what I want. I have the money ready before I ever enter into a deal. when the deal is made, money and property is exchanged. Too many things happen if you give people time. A better offer, oh the spare tire is not included, oh and there is another fee, oh I wrecked it yseterday, not bad, ...and on and on. I bought a car on Ebay once. Went to the bank got a casheers check hopped in my truck with a trailer and drover there. Picked it up the following day. Time will only screw up a deal.

You gotta strike when the metal is hot. But then again, there is always a better deal out there somewhere. Keep looking, I took 4-5 years of searching to find mine.

If you put some amount of money down even if it's a proportionally little to the sale price it makes it a binding agreement with a receipt as a confirmation that there was an exchange. This can become legally inforceable and may cause someone to reconsider before re-selling to someone else. Of course you may not want that much effort just to buy a car.
Please note ... I am not a lawyer but an engineer that has been in some tough scrapes.
Don't give up all of us have had to look for a while.

When I bought my car, I was actually out "doing something else", and my wife said "BUY IT".
(So I was not really prepared.) - The FIRST car I looked closely at too. Ugh.
So I went to a ATM and took max cash, along with everything in my wallet, I came up with $1,000, as a "deposit", we filled out a little paper. He had to get it smogged, which gave me time to get all cash, which he REQUIRED. But it also spanned about a week, time enough for a problem to occur.

Before I left, I justified loading up ALL the parts he had, including the rear luggage tray,
since all this stuff would not fit in the Pantera when the deal was done. I figure if he stiffed me on the deal, keeping my cash deposit,
(Hey we all know people that flake on a deal - right ?)
I would at least have a pile of parts. Maybe not worth the deposit, but it might defer the next buyer. This pile included ALL HIS PAPERWORK. As it was, a guy did try to buy it out-from-under me, but the seller was an honest
guy. I guess it didn't hurt that I accepted his initial asking price. He seemed real happy that I was the kind of guy to really appreciate his car, and his work put into it.
He grinned when I asked for a photo of us shaking hands on the deal, to begin the story of "my dream car". Hey for buyer or seller, these cars are "emotions" too.

Bottom line ?

Get "something" (more than paper or a handshake) in exchange for your cash deposit.

Somehow, "fate" may have kept you from a deal you would regret later. The right car is still ahead of you.

Tell us about it when it happens.

Chuck

Well thanks guys for your input. The hunt is getting tiresome...there have been other panteras too that I have gone to look at, but they wern't "the ones", they were either junk or way too expensive for my budget. I am 53 years old now and feel this is the last Hot Car I want to own. I have had many other toys (cars) up to this point in my life, but never a Pantera. I remember when they were new at the Lincoln dealers, I would drool with excitement and awe just looking at one. Well I will still try to find my pantera, its out there somewhere. Maybe there is an old guy out there who really cares that his Pantera goes to a good home, a gearhead like me. My wife thinks I am nuts to want such an expensive toy, but she understands, and she supports me......well take care everyone.

TT, Your car will come. Chuck has some great advice on cementing the deal without seeming like you don't trust the seller. The best advice is to act fast, which you have obviously learned the hard way. When I bought mine, I drove 5 hours having already arranged a bank draft and insurance - just in case. I was glad I did because it was early spring, when most men's minds turn to... Well you know. Someone else would have been right behind me. Absolutely remember to take your time and REALLY check everything before signing. I took a checklist and overlooked some things, but it really helped ensure I knew what I was overlooking. The fact that your wife is along for the ride is great.

Good luck!

Well, I must have been very lucky when I bought my car. It was located in the SF bay area and I'm living in Sweden. I talked to the seller over the phone and got an email with some pictures of it. I asked him if he could hold the car for me because I wanted to order an inspection of the car before I decide to buy or not. He said no problem and one week later the car were inspected by a guy from AAG (www.autoappraisal.com) who confirmed in a 10 page report of the car what the seller said about the car. Then I transferred the money to the seller and ordered shipping to its new home in Sweden. 5 weeks later the car arrived and I’m very happy about the car. This was the third car AAG inspected for me, the previous two were not in that shape that their owners stated and they then didn't take my lowered offer. I also got some help from Nils and Mark from Jersey Panteras who inspected a car for me for free! (Thanks again guys).

Fredrik Gustavsson / Sweden
1974 US GTS

I am sad to hear about this situation. From a practical standpoint, there is more interest in our cars recently than in recent years. We have sold 3 Panteras in one week here at PI Motorsports and we have received offers on others. If you see a car you like and it meets with your approval in terms of cosmetics, mechanics, providence, etc., you should make your move and put your deposit down and get a receipt with all of the major terms. From a seller's viewpoint, even if somebody has made overtures to purchase, if they haven't consummated the deal and put money in your hands, it is wise to close the deal with the first qualified person who is ready to go. We have made many, many deals with interested persons that later can't execute on the deal even though they represented that they were ready to go or that it was a done deal. Also, some owners are underpricing their cars and then when multiple buyers show up or they receive higher offers, they back out. It is good to do your research up front and satisfy yourself on current market prices and trends. There are a number of people out there who are understating the values of these cars, just check out the recent issue of Sports Car International. Ever see a GT5-S or GT5 sell for under $20K, in any condition? Good luck.

I'd keep all options open and not limit the search to Southern California. I see beautiful Pantera's on e-bay that never meet the reserve, but they have contact info and the seller is ready, so contact them, go look at it and be ready to deal. I bought a Pantera that way. My loan came thru at 4:00 PM Saturday, and I immediately drove from the bank in Albuquerque, New Mexico to a no-tell motel in Irvine, California and arrived at 3:00 AM Sunday. I met the seller at John Wayne Int'l Airport, where the car was in a hangar, with the dude's airplane and Harley. I inspected it as well as I could. It had lot's of things I liked and was missing some things I wanted, but it was free of rust. I negotiated a deal, peeled out the certified check and another $1,000 from a sock, then showed the guy my wallet was nearly empty, like 'could I keep $60 for gasoline and a burger to get home with, guy?' He called his wife, walked away and haggled with her, then came back and told me he was going to have to find a way to come up with an additional $4,000 to put into the account to make the wife happy, then did the bill of sale. I loaded up the spare set of seats, and all the spare parts and drove home, leaving L.A. about 2:30 PM, then was dog tired at work on Monday. I got a one way ticket for the next Saturday, the red eye, and got a cab to the airport and called him from there to let me have my car. He took his time, and I started driving home about 3:00 PM on Saturday. What a blast! That was it! Horns honked and flash bulbs started popping at me going down the freeway in L.A., and I've been photographed driving it ever since. They always honk, wave and sometimes shoot pictures. That always makes me smile, and laugh sometimes too.

You need patience. It always takes at least a week longer than I expect to get my parts delivered, and every project I start ends up getting bigger and bigger, as I keep saying, 'hey, I should upgrade this, too, while I'm into this thing this deep already anyway'. And so it goes, a hobby turns into a passion. I learn more than I ever imagined. I buy tools without hesitation. I now have an air compressor and won't hesitate do do any project by myself. I know I don't need to drive it to work the following day, so it's not a problem if I get stuck with something I thought I could handle, but couldn't. I use this BB to find info, and print out electrical schematics, etc. I get help and people tell me how to solder or use an electricity conductivity instrument, which is still a mysterious thing to me. But I love it. And I feel a sense of accomplishment. And it's all worth it. The wait. The frustration. The doubt. The money. Finally, every time, the satisfaction and the thrill. I think people know it implicitly. I was walking out of a Walgreens Drug Store and I saw this guy about 5 years older than me walking around it, looking in the engine area while the screen was off. He kept saying 'Wow' then he walked to his car, but turned around again, stopped, and said 'Wow' then just as he got in his car a little behind me, he crouched down and checked out the underside, and said, 'Wow' shaking his head. Then he got in his car and looked at me as I inserted the key in the door and gave me the thumbs up and smiled and drove off.

What do you think he was thinking? Wow? Maybe. More like it, he was thinking, 'Man, I wish that was mine, or I wish I could at least drive it just one time at least half a mile, just once in my lifetime....' I'm telepathic and that's what I saw him thinking!

Wow.

So, just be patient, and pursue your dream and it'll happen. Now, you're ready to do the deal. And, oh yeah, the seller at the airport hangar told me he had three more offers that week before I picked it up. I said, probably so, but they are dreamers, for all you know, and I made the effort to show up, with the 'cash' and you know, a deal's a deal so thank you very much. I took pictures starting with him driving the car out of the hangar, and he asked me for a picture or two with him in the Pantera, on that last day. I said sure, and actually sent him several pictures of him in 'his' Pantera. I'm sure he still looks at them with fondness.

Oh, and I never even asked to drive it, and didn't until that next Saturday. A scary thing, driving a Pantera for the first time, everybody staring, and such power and performance. What a drive home. Something I had been looking forward to for decades, just like you, TT, just like you. And your day is coming, I know because you were so disappointed. But you can still call the guy back in Long Beach on Monday if you want. That's how I got my house, the buyer couldn't finance and couldn't sell his house, so the seller gave him a deadline, and I was ready to close. I closed in 10 days, a near record time. It's all possible for the patient and persistent amoung us. We know what each other goes thru with their Pantera's too. Part of the bond. Part of the respect. We'll see you in Vegas 2006 with your Pantera too, I'm confident.

Sort of wish I was searching for a Pantera right now, because I'm bored waiting for Pantera parts to arrive.... Arivaderci! VFI (on the loose)

TT, I'd take action. Get a certified check made out in the Long Beach Pantera owner's name, and ask him if you can swing by and look at his Pantera again, if he still has it. Then, if it's what you really want, give him the check and even peel the cash out of your sock, and match the other guy's offer. You can do the deal 'right now' that way, get the bill-of-sale filled out, sign the title right there and then, and he can't have second thoughts. Just drive it away, and come back for your car tomorrow. If not, maybe ask if he'll give the other guy a deadline. Here's why.

The Euro is at least 30% more expensive than the dollar, so that makes things 30% cheaper for a Eurpean to purchase a Pantera here than there. So much so, that exotic sports cars always transfer back and forth, all over the world, depending on currencies and fluctuating exchange rates. It's even profitable, and easily out weighs the shipping charges. So, I expect to see Pantera prices escalate. Maybe 30%. And Dave is seeing brisk Pantera sales, too. Maybe a partial reason why. New car prices are up there for anything decent, so Pantera prices always follow suit. Best of luck. I'd take action, you can sell it later if you want.

Get the paperwork ?!?

WOW, I WISH I had thought of that, wouyld have saved me from the same fate on my first almost Pantera.

Seems reasonable, 'cause you will want to review it to set up a mainenance and repair/upgrade schedule.

!

Thanks again guys for all your info and support.Its been a hard week reflecting on what happeded on the deal gone bad, but I'm doing ok now and the search continues. Like I say, you trust someones word, only to find out they can be bought. Maybe thats the biggest disappointment, honor with some people can be bent or twisted to their benefit. I look forward to someday meeting you all to show you my new Pantera.

Hey, at least you didn't buy that 'creampuff' that Chuck Melton was talking about today that was listed on e-bay. Suppose somebody threw an Earl Schieb one-day paint job on that and put a handful of sawdust in the engine and transmission to make them run nice and quiet, with some aviation fuel or racing gas to give it a little power for your test drive. It could be worse....

I was talking to panterasomeday about where to look for Pantera's and if you want, here's a link, and a refresher course on finding what you want:
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2250045562/m/2100016813/p/1

I would expand the distance you are willing to search.I bought mine from Ca, & I'm in Ky.My experience lately has been that everything, real estate & collector cars & parts, are selling fast, and at full price or close. It seems to be a sellers market, I don't know if its fear of inflation, the age of baby boomers, exchange rates or ? But I do know this & you can quote me "time kills ALL deals". Good luck, if you find one anywhere near Ky& need someone to look at it let me know - my beer exchange rate is quite affordable....

I guess you could say I expanded my search too. I bought mine in Europe and brought it to the US.