Cam for 2V heads

Hum. No negative intended by me, but to me this is way too mild of a set up. What is the purpose of building a mild Cleveland? The specs you are stating are not much more then a 2v station wagon engine?

The point of the Cleveland is for performance. In order to do that you need quite a bit of cam lift and engine rpms otherwise why bother? Unless of course you got all of this for free, then I'd understand.

The 2v heads are going to give you more crispness off of idle with a pretty straight line power curve BUT they are not going to allow the type of reving necessary to wake this engine up.

The Ford 2v intake ports do not have good line of sight into the valve pockets.

You need a cam in the .600 to .650" lift range and a duration of around 300 degrees and an overlap of 72-75 degrees. If that is too hot, then you are building the wrong engine.

Just my opinion. I am sure others here will seriously disagree but everyone has a different concept of what this engine is?

I personally do not like the open chamber heads for any cleveland application. Granted the flame path can be better with a open chamber head(ie big block chevy). BUT this is not a chevy. If you really want to go 2V I would jump on these heads:
2V Aussie
Go to a dished piston, keep the compression under 10:1 and for the street use a nice .600" hydraulic roller.
Enjoy!

4V valves in 2V heads is a waste of time. A stock exhaust valve & 2.08" intake valve are big enough. Manley doesn't offer a stock size intake valve for 2V Clevelands, but they have a 2.08" Chevy valve that works, which is why I write a 2.08" intake valve is big enough.

Mill the heads to take the chambers down to 70cc and zero deck the block, that will take the motor to 10.0:1 compression. The heads normally need 0.040" milled off them unless you happen to have a set of 1970 heads, those only need 0.030" milled off them.

It would be hard for me to recommend a cam without a better picture in my head of how the car is being used (weekend warrior or daily driver?) and how you want the motor to perform. In general the three things that are different between 2V motors and 4V motors is (1) the valves are smaller, (2) the intake port average cross-section is smaller and (3) air flow through the intake port hits a brick wall at 0.550" valve lift even when its ported.

Have fun with it!

-G

George, Thanks for bringing your clarity to the discussion.

The 4V valves weren't my idea. I bought a set of heads that had already been built, but never installed, and that's what the previous owner wanted. I agree with you on sticking with the stock sizes. It was hard to pass up on these as I paid less then the cost of the parts he had bought, not to mention the machine work.

My car was once a daily driver, but now definitely falls into the weekend warrior range. As far as performance, I'm looking for a broad power range, and am willing to give up a bit at the top end if it improves the mid-range.

Thanks....JP

I have a hydraulic camshaft spec I call my Boss camshaft, it can be found elsewhere, specified as either a flat tappet or roller tappet camshaft. I have no experience with it in conjunction with 2V heads, but its a bad ass camshaft with 4V heads; 285°/295° duration and 60° overlap ground on 115° lsa. The big question is, will that spec give you the acceleration you're looking for? The motor will fry tires if you want it to, but it will hook up easier than a motor having a cam with narrower lsa. Motors with cams like this have a burbling idle due to the early opening exhaust valve ... as opposed to a lopey idle caused by a lot of overlap. The lobes I've selected for those cams are neither mild nor wild, they're hot but selected for longevity too. Of course, a 2V head can't use a lot of valve lift anyway. What made me think of this cam in the first place, it doesn't lift the valves any more than my Cobra Jet spec, but it has 10° more duration, which is what a motor with 2V heads needs to make more bhp.

Combine one of those Boss cams (flat or roller tappet) with a Parker 2V Funnelweb or a TFC 2V high rise manifold and a carb of about 700 CFM and your motor should be a screamer.

If you prefer a solid camshaft over a hydraulic cam, or if you prefer tighter lobe centers, let me know and we can explore that.

-G

quote:

Originally posted by MustangJP:
Will be putting together a 2V headed engine soon and need to make a decision on a camshaft. I've read George's post on engine guidance and I do like the Crane and Crower 284 hydraulic profiles. I'm also looking at the Comp Cams 282s solid cam as well. Would appreciate anybody's input from their experiences.

Engine will be used in a 67 Mustang that is a combination street and road track car with occasional trips down the 1/4 mile. About 2900 pounds with driver. Rear gears undecided, but probably 3.30 or 3.55 ratio. C-4 auto trans for now with a 5 speed in the future.

Planning:
6500 red line
9.5:1 to 10:1 compression
Forged Speed pro pistons +.030
stock crank and rods
2V open chamber heads, fully ported w/ 4V valves

Thanks....JP

I have a CompsCam 282S in my Pantera, with Austrialian quench chamber heads. I can't tell you how it would work in a Mustang, but have 9 years now with that engine in the Pantera.

The intake is a Weiand Xcelerator. This is a completely different formula of Cleveland from any of the other 5 engine formulas I've had before. It revs happily to the 6500 rev limiting chip in the MSD box - the others just ran out of air at 5500. This would keep pulling if the chip were not in place.

It's hard to tell if it is low on low-end grunt, or if the high end rush is so strong that it makes the low end feel weak. It really does come on strong from 4000 rpm and up

4V heads have very large ports. The intake, though overly large for most
applications, is shaped decently enough. Port stuffers can be used to raise
the dead flow region to yield an intake port similar to that of the Ford
Motorsport A3 racing head. The 4V exhaust was supposedly compromised to
clear the shock towers of early Mustangs and Cougars and has a hump then a
sharp drop with an exaggerated area change, though the 2V exhaust port clears
without all the weirdness. The 4V port exit area is very large but much of
it is wasted and the flow velocity low. The resulting poor intake to exhaust
flow ratio may benefit from a cam with additional duration (typically 6 to 8
degrees) and lift on the exhaust side, assuming a normally aspirated engine
with a typical street performance cam. As cam duration increases, the
reversion created by extra exhaust duration may actually become detrimental.
4V heads respond to a lot of lift and tighter lobe centers (108-110 for a high
performance street cam) and keep flowing more air past 0.600" valve lift.
The 4V exhaust port is sized for a 1 7/8" primary diameter header but you can
run 1 3/4" primaries if the flange is made correctly.

The 2V is a entirely different cylinder head, not just a 4V with smaller ports.
The oval ports, while small, are still decently sized. The intake ports are
biased to the side to get a straighter shot at the valve but have a poor short
side radius that is harder to improve than a 4V. Installing 4V intake valves
only make this worse. If going larger, a 2.08" intake should work fine.
The exhaust port has a moderate area change and a nice short side radius.
Though much smaller in cross-sectional exit area (though not necessarily a
smaller minimum area), the 2V exhaust port flows nearly as much as a 4V, with
substantially higher velocities. The 2V exhaust port is sized for a 1 3/4"
primary diameter header which. We've ported some 2V heads where the intake
flows 220 CFM and the exhaust 200 CFM. Since 2V heads such a strong exhaust,
they work well with a single pattern cam. Unported 2V heads tend to build
flow early (have good low lift flow) and level off after 0.530" lift or so.
Extreme lift cams will be wasted on 2V heads unless they have been ported.

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:
I have a hydraulic camshaft spec I call my Boss camshaft, it can be found elsewhere, specified as either a flat tappet or roller tappet camshaft. I have no experience with it in conjunction with 2V heads, but its a bad ass camshaft with 4V heads; 285°/295° duration and 60° overlap ground on 115° lsa. The big question is, will that spec give you the acceleration you're looking for? The motor will fry tires if you want it to, but it will hook up easier than a motor having a cam with narrower lsa. Motors with cams like this have a burbling idle due to the early opening exhaust valve ... as opposed to a lopey idle caused by a lot of overlap. The lobes I've selected for those cams are neither mild nor wild, they're hot but selected for longevity too. Of course, a 2V head can't use a lot of valve lift anyway. What made me think of this cam in the first place, it doesn't lift the valves any more than my Cobra Jet spec, but it has 10° more duration, which is what a motor with 2V heads needs to make more bhp.

Combine one of those Boss cams (flat or roller tappet) with a Parker 2V Funnelweb or a TFC 2V high rise manifold and a carb of about 700 CFM and your motor should be a screamer.

If you prefer a solid camshaft over a hydraulic cam, or if you prefer tighter lobe centers, let me know and we can explore that.

-G

George, your Boss cam pattern was my first choice when I decided to rebuild and may go that way via the Crane 284 or Crower 284 cam. However I am considering a solid cam, mainly the CompCams 282S, so I'd welcome any thoughts you have on that one, or any other solid cam or cam profile.

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie McCall:


I have a CompsCam 282S in my Pantera, with Austrialian quench chamber heads. I can't tell you how it would work in a Mustang, but have 9 years now with that engine in the Pantera.

The intake is a Weiand Xcelerator. This is a completely different formula of Cleveland from any of the other 5 engine formulas I've had before. It revs happily to the 6500 rev limiting chip in the MSD box - the others just ran out of air at 5500. This would keep pulling if the chip were not in place.

It's hard to tell if it is low on low-end grunt, or if the high end rush is so strong that it makes the low end feel weak. It really does come on strong from 4000 rpm and up

Thanks for sharing your experience Charlie.
How are the street manners of this cam? I know this cam will do quite well in the upper ranges, but am curious as to how it performs in more routine driving, ie: city driving, stop-n-go, highway cruising, fuel economy, etc Also how many miles do you go between valve lash adjustments?

Thanks..........Jason

quote:

Originally posted by MustangJP:
George, your Boss cam pattern was my first choice ... However I am considering a solid cam ...

Custom ground solid flat tappet camshaft

Grinder: Bullet Cams
Intake: Lobe #F285/355
Exhaust: Lobe #F295/358
-----------------------------
285°/295° advertised duration
290° average duration
Exhaust valve opening = 85° BBDC
Intake valve opening = 30° BTDC
60° overlap
Exhaust valve closing = 30° ATDC
Intake valve closing = 75° ABDC
------------------------------
250°/260° duration @ 0.050
0.585"/0.590" net valve lift (0.029" lash)
115° lobe separation angle (camshaft degrees)
Intake lobe mathematic centerline = 112.5° ATDC
Exhaust lobe mathematic centerline = 117.5° BTDC

-G

Thank you George, May be a bit more duration @ .050 then I'd like to run, but it sure looks good on the software dyno, especially at the top end!

The motor would have good manners on the bottom with a dual plane manifold, and a mad rush on top. A very wide powerband. The generous duration is just what the 2V heads need to make power.

quote:

Originally posted by MustangJP:

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie McCall:


I have a CompsCam 282S in my Pantera, with Austrialian quench chamber heads. I can't tell you how it would work in a Mustang, but have 9 years now with that engine in the Pantera.

The intake is a Weiand Xcelerator. This is a completely different formula of Cleveland from any of the other 5 engine formulas I've had before. It revs happily to the 6500 rev limiting chip in the MSD box - the others just ran out of air at 5500. This would keep pulling if the chip were not in place.

It's hard to tell if it is low on low-end grunt, or if the high end rush is so strong that it makes the low end feel weak. It really does come on strong from 4000 rpm and up

Thanks for sharing your experience Charlie.
How are the street manners of this cam? I know this cam will do quite well in the upper ranges, but am curious as to how it performs in more routine driving, ie: city driving, stop-n-go, highway cruising, fuel economy, etc Also how many miles do you go between valve lash adjustments?

Thanks..........Jason

Street manners are just fine. It idles just fine, and makes a really nice noise while doing so :-) The ticka-ticka-ticka of the solid lifters grows on you quickly. I don't have problems with vacuum for brakes, and have no problems driving around town.

I adjust valve lash once a year. It rarely needs much adjustment. These days I don't do more than 7000 miles/year.

It's easy to live with. Adjusting lash is a pain but it isn't difficult. And as mentioned, I like the noise

Charlie, Thanks for sharing your experiences with this cam. This is just the kind of feedback I was hoping to get.