Chassis number: THPNZY09189 - Information sought

Hi Dave.
The first GT5 was shown at the Turin Motor Show in 1980. It was a white car and had chassis number 9250.
I have owned #9139, built in 1979 and sold to Austria as a 1980 model. Pics you can see under "De Tomaso Photo Gallery" and "My Old Cars".
In 1978 they started with a new improved series of chassis, made by Embo, from 9100 on.
So, I think this car must be also a late 1979 car and is definitly not an original GT5.
Most of these cars came with the wide wheels, but with the small GTS front spoiler and riveted GT4 flares like my former brown car.
Franz

hi there im the lucky lad who now owns 9189. how can i tell if it is a genuine gt5 or not. it has all the fibre glass flares which as you say have been rivited in place and huge wrap round front spoiler.is it simply the chassis number that dictates it is to old? is it possible that the car may have been a promotional tool sent to saudi to generate sales in the oil rich market of the time before the turin show. what does the ZY chassis year prefix refer to.

regards
mark

A VIN decoder can be found here:


http://www.geocities.com/provamo72/

or directly

http://www.geocities.com/provamo72/VINDecoder.html

This only (accurately) applies to 1971-1974 era cars but it will give you an idea what the numbers mean.

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by Si Targa:
The first GT5 was shown at the Turin Motor Show in 1980. It was a white car and had chassis number 9250...So, I think this car must be also a late 1979 car and is definitly not an original GT5.

I know of two local Panteras with numbers lower than 9250, and they are BOTH 1982 GT5 models. One is 9195 and the other is 9203. Based on those cars, I don't see why this one (only a few cars before the others) would not be a real GT5.

as i slowly remove and check things on 9189 im now inclined to think it is not a gt5. so will it be a gts ? the brakes are the reason as they are not vented at all both front and rear are solid and the fronts are on 2nd series uprights, gt5 are different, with standard four pot calipers although the parts book i have shows a vented disk for all models. anybody got any further idears. i have also posted a few more pics of the car as it is today, you can find them under 9189 in the gallery

Here's what's I see as really important.

You found a PANTERA! THE COOLEST CAR EVER MADE!

We'll all be rooting for you as you perform miracles on this cat.

Remember....we'll be right here, ready to help, share in your pain and also your triumphs, as you get this car back on the road.

Best wishes!
Kevin

Mark,
you write about a 1982 GT5 with #9195.
This says nothing more than this car was registered in your country in 1982, but nothing about, when this car was built or when this car was sold by the factory.
For example: My blue Targa was built 1993, sold by the factory to Germany in 1994, but has the first registration in Germany from 1997.
For me it is a 1993 and not a 1994 or 1997 car.
What is it for you?
The conclusion is, that #9189 can't ba a GT5, but that is not important. All cars, GTS, GT5 and GT5-S from #9100 on were made from the same chassis and had not so many differences.
GT5-9189,
enjoy your great car, it is not important, if it is a factory GT5 or a conversion.

Franz, I agree that model year is irrelevant. My point was only that S/N 9250 (as shown at Turin in 1980) clearly was not the lowest serial number GT5, and that if S/N 9195 was a GT5, it was possible (although from Mark's info noted above, unlikely) that S/N 9189 could also have been a GT5. Clearly DeTomaso didn't follow too many standards or conventions when producing cars in sequence.

Best regards,

But i think the key is that Mark says that his car has riveted fender flares, which is an indication that it is not a GT5. GT5's have the fiberglass flares attached, um, I'm not really sure how but you can't see rivets! It is a smooth junction with a bead of sealant or something running along the joint. The riveted flares were the GT4/GTS look.

He'd need to check with the previous owners to find out what the story is, but I'm inclined to agree with Franz and others that it began life as a GTS and was converted later.

I also agree that none of this really matters - congratulations on a cool car!

A few years ago when I lived in Florida , I'd seen a grey factory GT5.

The factory flares on this car are 100% fiberglass and were pop rivetted. You had to look in the wheel well to see this. Beautiful car, by the way.

Coz, what say you?


Kevin

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie McCall:
But i think the key is that Mark says that his car has riveted fender flares, which is an indication that it is not a GT5. GT5's have the fiberglass flares attached, um, I'm not really sure how but you can't see rivets! It is a smooth junction with a bead of sealant or something running along the joint. The riveted flares were the GT4/GTS look.

He'd need to check with the previous owners to find out what the story is, but I'm inclined to agree with Franz and others that it began life as a GTS and was converted later.

I also agree that none of this really matters - congratulations on a cool car!

OK, Charlie, here is a weird thing, I have a 73 europeon GTS and it has fiberglass flairs, BUT you can't see any signs of a rivet. If they are there under the paint, they must be aluminum because a magnet won't stick to the flairs at all. BUT it will stick to the inside of the flairs!! That is almost like a holloween mystery. I don't know how they did that.

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie McCall:
But i think the key is that Mark says that his car has riveted fender flares, which is an indication that it is not a GT5. GT5's have the fiberglass flares attached, um, I'm not really sure how but you can't see rivets! It is a smooth junction with a bead of sealant or something running along the joint. The riveted flares were the GT4/GTS look.

He'd need to check with the previous owners to find out what the story is, but I'm inclined to agree with Franz and others that it began life as a GTS and was converted later.

I also agree that none of this really matters - congratulations on a cool car!

OK, Charlie, here is a weird thing, I have a 73 europeon GTS and it has fiberglass flairs, BUT you can't see any signs of a rivet. If they are there under the paint, they must be aluminum because a magnet won't stick to the flairs at all. BUT it will stick to the inside of the flairs!! That is almost like a holloween mystery. I don't know how they did that.

Good question. I just know that the factory GT5 cars don't have visible rivets (which I guess is what I should have said) while the GTS and GT/4 cars had flares with the rivets plainly visible.

So I have no idea what the story is with your GTS... But everyone loves a mystery!

There is a scenario that would tie all the facts together.

9189 might have been an unsold 1979 GTS that the factory updated with GT5 coachwork sometime after the 1980 showing of the first GT5 in Turin. 9189 is 61 cars away from 9250, a bit more than a year's production at deTomaso at that time.

Perhaps Roland can solve the mystery when he checks the factory records.

your friend on the PIBB, George

Roland, you've harshly and severely criticized deTomaso it's inability to keep accurate keeping.

Now you're gonna refer to Alejandro's records?

quote:

Originally posted by pantera874:

quote:

Originally posted by JK:
Roland, you've harshly and severely criticized deTomaso it's inability to keep accurate keeping.

Now you're gonna refer to Alejandro's records?

I have harshly criticized Santiago DeTomaso and the way of his business and i still do. In fact, those records are not in the factory and i don't have to ask him (i would never do).

How accurate are those records?

Or, did they do such an outstanding job at keeping records.. unlike their poor business practices?

Their records are spotty, and not always full of information.

I've seen the folder with my car's records (9375) and it has color, options included, sales price, original buyer, and not a lot else.

I say spotty because, for example, they are incapable of telling us how many GT5-S cars were manufactured by the factory. Claudia counted, and the official number from the factory is 39, a number which nobody believes.

So it is a resource, to be taken with a grain of salt, but it doesn't hurt to look.

hi guys thanks for all the info and yes i will enjoy my car in the end but now it is just a shell, only the motor and box to come out. i have found so much rot in the shell that if it was not a pantera it would be scraped. both a and b pillers are non existant for the last few inches, both sills and floor pans, foot wells and front panel all need replacment.the front of the bonnet has crumbled to nothing and it goes on and on, even the rear lip of the roof has such bad rust it has caused the left hand deck hinge to move and allowed the deck to sag.i shall have to weld in some bracing before i cut out the old sills, anybody done a sill replacment before.?more pics posted in the gallery as well.also whilst tearing the car down i have noticed it has been at least 7 different colours...some people are just never happy

Roland,
You have access to "rest of world cars" NOT US built cars, is this correct?

Roland - Where are you getting this information delivered from? Who owns this info?

I thought you already owned it.

Kevin