Most probably think the Pantera is the direct descendant of the GT-40. That would make most wrong. The GT-40 was developed from the Lola race car. It has an out board spine. The Pantera was indirectly descended from the Lotus Europa. It has a central spine.
Alesandro liked the europa, but the Europa was butt ugly. So he made an Italian version and called it Vallunga. Then he scaled it up and put a v-8 in it for more power and this became the Mangusta. Then Ford and he got together and made the Pantera with a slightly larger v-8 and a slightly smaller center spine.
So the Pantera is more like a big Europa than it is a slightly larger GT-40. Why I brought this up is just to make people argue and get into fights over it. Stir things up. I enjoy watching people fight. Razzer
Original Post
Mad Mad

Wrong, and I'll prove it. Wink

The true heart of the Pantera is not its chassis, but its powerplant. That, of course, is the Ford Cleveland V-8.

The first smallblock, not flathead, V-8 was the 1962 221 c.i. version. It was installed in the Fairlane.

quote - The first Ford small block was introduced in the new intermediate size Fairlane in 1962. It was designed to be a weight saving power plant with thin cast iron walls. Weighing in at 450 pounds, it was hundreds of pounds lighter than the big block motors. The first small block was a 221 cubic inch motor. The two barrel version was rated at 216 gross horsepower with 8.7:1 compression. - quote

Thus, our Panteras are most certainly not lineage of some silly little Europa, but instead owe their hertitage to the venerable Ford Fairlane.

So there! Razzer

Larry

HEY - Post #700. Do I win a prize??
When Ford want's to build a mid-engine car, Detomaso is aware of this, builds a model and says "we can build this" Ford says "You can use this engine" is that really lineage?

Did it go from Mangusta to Pantera? They drew from it but scrapped the spine chassis.

In the end I don't think it's cut and dried....Unless the Ford GT-40 program specifically took its GT-40 group over to Detomaso to continue the program in another direction.

Gary
Eeker

The Pantera is what the Pantera is, the Pantera.

It is one step short of the "true Italian" GT's, it doesn't have a DeTomaso powerplant.

Detomaso indeed cut his own throat when he decided on an American power plant. That is just plain against the Laws of Mankind. (Yeah right)

And of all engines to put in it, a Ford! OMG!

I for one embrace the Pantera. It's some kinda wierd bastard, just like me.

And as far as what the "real I-talians" think, you don't wanna know what I think.
Imguy .... you hit it on the head ... the real I-talians think ... and the other Europeans think ... the Pantera is exotic.

The Ferarri Boys dont ever want to see a Pantera do anything better then their car .. if that happened with a car that cost 1/4 of the price how would you feel. LOL
Yes it depends on ones point of view, for sure.
Timing is everything though.

I suppose that 5.7 liters of anything is exotic by Euro standards. What are the v12 ferraris of the time, 5 liters? Little tinny whimpy pistons, valves you need a magnifying glass to see, connecting rods made out of dried pasta, cars painted tomato sauce red, geeze!

I really wonder what we would have had if the Pantera been a 427 Ford? 2 x4's, solid lifters, maybe even....the CAMMER!
Talk about an all time ass kicker, wow.

All those Italian GT's would scatter like the pigeons.
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I really wonder what we would have had if the Pantera been a 427 Ford? 2 x4's, solid lifters, maybe even....the CAMMER!
Talk about an all time ass kicker, wow.

All those Italian GT's would scatter like the pigeons.


DeTomaso did make a DOHC conversion for the 351. Too bad it never went into production.
quote:

The first smallblock, not flathead, V-8 was the 1962 221 c.i. version. It was installed in the Fairlane.


The first Ford OHV small block was the Y block introduced in 1954 with 239 cu in. In 1955 it went to 272 cu in, 1956 292 cu in and 312 cu in. There was a 270 hp dual quad option in 1957 and a 300 hp paxton supercharger option. The NASCAR "racing kit" version was 340 hp. 1962 was the last year for the Y block in passenger cars. 1964 was the last year for the Y block in trucks.
quote:
Originally posted by comp2:
...Did it go from Mangusta to Pantera...


The Mangusta was designed to replace the Cobra as Ford's sports car. When Ford got around to checking it out, they of course gave it the thumbs down, and rightly so. Although they are a beautiful design, they are a terrible car. So Alejandro told his friend, Lee Iacocca, come to Italy, I have another car to show you. Ghia, under Tom Tjaarda, already had 3 prototypes in the works. Alejandro called Tom into his office and informed him he had a visitor coming and to prepare the prototypes for presentation. One of those prototypes was chosen by Mr Iacocca, and became the Pantera.

I've never read if the prototypes were originally intended to have a spine chassis, or if a uni-body was intended from the beginning. A good question to ask Tom.
quote:
Originally posted by accobra:
... this is what sat in my barn only month before the Pantera .. 2 of them ...


You know, I love the cammer motor very much, I have years of fond memories maintaining one for a friend named Don.

But the cammer was never a production motor, and Ford was trying to keep costs down.

Had they chosen the cammer motor, the ZF would never had lasted, and the Pantera's flimsy chassis would have twisted & cracked like a pretzel. And if a 300 bhp motor had over heating problems, can you imagine what problems a 600 bhp motor would have had!

When the 427 was first installed in the GT40, to run LeMans 1965, all the 427 equipped GT40s DNF'd with transmission failures.
quote:
Originally posted by accobra:
Panteradoug ... as they say timing is everything .. this is what sat in my barn only month before the Pantera .. 2 of them ..

Ron


Truth is stranger then fiction Ron.
George, I'll bet that Dennis Q is sitting back chuckling about the 427 thing? Apparently his cars run very, pretty, fantastic good with the FE.

May I also point out the quantity of 351/427's running around? Of course if you get Jerry Grant to drive them consider them already broken. Smiler

But don't mind me. I just stoped into this establishment to check out the bartenders buttery nipples. Nice ones too!
Well , JWR, it did. And the Mangusta came from the Vallunga.
Larry, the engine argument was pathetic. A Pantera is a Pantera no matter what engine is in it, same with a Falcon. You are disqualified. So Doug, even IF a Pantera had come with a SHOC, it woulda still been a Pantera and George was right in that the 427 was not a real engine but a race car motor and Ron is still a poopy head for not haveing been the only person in history to have put a SHOC in a Pantera, but I forgive him for his grevious sin, cause he is doing a rotiserie restoration afterall, which gives him bookoo brownie points in my book.
The argument about being a monocoque is a hearing cause the GT-40 was called that too even though it clearly has two sub frames, and the Pantera does have a suedo-sub frame by having tubing on the bottom of the chassis. The Lotus really was a true spine as it had an ibeam running down the center, the Vallunga had a subframe in the rear. So, I guess I WIN!!! Big Grin Eeker
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