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I have other question about the cooling in a pantera. I completed some work on the engine (carb/plugs/wires valve covers)and ran it and the gauge says 190 deg but I can hear water swooshing near the engine like the thermostat might be stuck. I'm still learning about panteras. Is there any diagram on how the entire system works? Whats the canisters? I only have 1 of 3 fans in front working, is the others controlled by a thermostate? Thanks, and sorry for all the questions....
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First, some info, as Panteras are the MOST modified sportscars on the face of the earth, so yours is likely not stock. Stock watertemp gauges are notoriously inaccurate, especially if mounted in the location DeTomaso picked (in the swirl water tank near the rt cylinder head). If the gauge sender is located there, it should be moved ASAP to the block, under the thermatat housing (Fords stock location for 351Cs). The gauge wire will reach the new location, and the plug in the block will fit the tank, making this a no-cost swap. Second, this engine takes its own special version of a thermostat, and no others will work.If your hearimg is sensitive, you may hear water moving back & forth in the big water pipes under the console. Third, the car came with two small pusher fans mounted in the grille opening ahead of the radiator, so your 3rd fan is an add-on. The stock fans were wired to turn on via separate thermostats (one @ 180, one @ 192 degrees) in the radiator header tank, but many cars were rewired so the fans turned on manually, usually by the normally-unused lowest switch on the console, or even by the ignition switch. There are two "cannisters"- the smaller one is a swirl tank that contains the radiator pressure cap, and a second, larger one is an overflow tucked underneath the rt side engine cover and only has a cap that does not seal pressure. Finally, your car appears to be a '74 from your 'handle,' so your gauge reads to 260. An operating temp of 220-230 degrees around town is not overheating; overheating is defined as when coolant burps out of the small tank, usually after a long slow run in traffic. On the highway, operating temps will run around 180-200, assuming the gauge reads half-way correct. Oh, and you'll have more questions.... I recommend buying ALL the manuals etc on Panteras you can find, as you appear to be a do-it-youself guy, and without a 'cookbook' to follow, this will not turn out well. Elsewhere in this website are all known manuals.
i need HELP!! had an aluminum radiator installed with 2 - 17" sucker fans from PI. car is a 1972 with 351C pushed to a 400ci with all the trimmings. currently car runs in normal traffic slightly under the max on my gauge 230f. gary hall is installing a brass radiator which he says works far better on the street. aluminum is meant for racing not stop and go. somebody enlighten me.
Brass V. Aluminum Is that your question ?

They both work well. Can't go wrong with either. So...
I would not replace a functional radiator of either type
with the other type.

Preferences ? Comparing the two... take your pick.

I'd guess brass weighs more for the same size radiator.
(minor car weight & balance issues)

I forget which metal has a higher thermal transfer rate,
I'd guess aluminum.
(So for the same cooling level, the radiator *could* be smaller.)

Various thicknesses typically available with either
3 - Row
4 - Row Call it depth
5 - Row

Take you pick.
Don't over do it, and have "Lake Ontario" hanging
on the front end.

Brass can be fixed easier & cheaper, soldering versus TIG welding.
So If you are stuck on the road...brass is easier to fix.

An Aluminum radiator is more expensive.

Which is more "fragile" ?

I would like to know if Gary is selling you his "Phoenix" radiator. I bought that one many years ago, maybe 15. Anyway the top and bottom plates were made of steel and they were held together with steel banding. The steel bands rusted through after about 2 years and the top and especially the bottom plate rusted away wihin about 4 years. I thought the $600.00 radiator was toast, but I took it to my local radiator shop and he tested it and internally it was still good. I wound up having to take it to a metal fabricating shop who replaced both top and bottom plates out of 1/8" brass. The radiator shop soldered it all back together and used stainless steel bands to reinforce it. That was around 1996 and no problems since. I passed this info on to Gary, I don't know if he made any changes or not, don't think I would buy one if he hasn't. Definately would if he has.
Anyway, 2 years ago, I took it out again, this time to have the brackets turned around, so I could lay it forward, Back to the radiator shop, flushed and pressure tested it and again he said it was in excellent shape. I was almost hoping it would be time to replace it with an aluminum, but I didn't(couldn't justify the expense when mine was still in such good condition).

There is a guy in our local club who has had similar problems (constantly overheating)with an aluminum radiator from a different vendor. The same vendor had done a complete restoration on another club members car and that car had a third fan pushing from the front (no overheating problems) The guy with the overheating problem finally went back to his original stock radiator and the problem went away. Try contacting Tim at for more enlightenment on the problems he went through.

Good luck.
Aluminum has slightly less thermal conductivity than copper, but is less dense (lighter) than copper. Aluminum has a lower tensile strength than copper so it is constructed with thicker wall material.
Sometimes brass/copper radiators are considered better for the street due to the strength, but it depends on the manufacturer for proper construction. It’s not the material of construction as much as the design, fin spacing, number of tubes, etc. I WOULD NOT BUY ANY RADIATOR THAT IS CONSTRUCTED OF TWO DISSIMILAR METALS. The expansion rate is different for different metals, also local galvanic activity is possible. The Fluidyde radiators that many of the Pantera guys have been using seem more than adequate and much lighter than the stock one, I believe that most of the problems are not the radiator but the execution of the entire system. The water pump should be replaced with an enclosed impeller type (higher volume), Fans should move more air than the original ones, shouded fan blades a must. Electrical control must be up-graded to handle increased fan wattage. Thermostat replaced with Cleveland type if using the “baffle” plate.
Check my post under "Overheating" topic for pics.
thanx chuck, fordgt, and jon3613. my aluminum radiator is a fluidyne. not sure if gary is selling me a phoenix. he just feels that a brass radiator is better suited for the street. having read chuck's article i see that i should first look into the possibility that the gauge is off, the sending unit may be mismatched and/or misplaced. i would like the fluidyne to be used for the weight sake. the car body has been upgraded to a GT5S. i have replaced or fixed the front air dam twice now (driving onto my drive way). what i don't need up there is more weight. however, if the brass radiator works better then the aluminum one, so be it. i also don't want to sacrifice my ride by adding a front lift kit. anyway, i appreciate all your help.

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