What would have been the correct carburetor for late 1971-early 1972 (motorcraft). Specifically model number.
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I thought they were called Autolite back them ... specifically a 4300 - ?
Ron
Ron
The original carb was a 4300 series Autolite. Basic part number for the carbs is 9510. There were several part numbers depending upon smog/no smog, vacuum choke or not, etc.
Parts book list the following:
71/71 351C-CJ: D1ZF-FA, D2ZF-AA, D2ZF-GA, D2PF-TA
71/71 351C-4B, BOSS: D0OF-AB, D1OF-EA.
Parts book list the following:
71/71 351C-CJ: D1ZF-FA, D2ZF-AA, D2ZF-GA, D2PF-TA
71/71 351C-4B, BOSS: D0OF-AB, D1OF-EA.
Most 1971 Clevelands were M code motors with closed chamber heads, single point distributor, 2 bolt main caps and 600 CFM, square flange Autolite model 4300A carburetors. Engine tag read K-613-J.
In the spring of 1971, as the 1971 model year was winding down (ended July 31, 1971), Ford made a switch to the Q code motor with open chamber heads, Cobra Jet cam, dual point distributor, 4 bolt main caps and a 750 CFM, spread bore Autolite 4300D. Engine tag read K-621-S (49 state) or K-621-SG (California or Green State). Ford referred to California as the green state, hence the G added to the tag number for California cars.
-G
In the spring of 1971, as the 1971 model year was winding down (ended July 31, 1971), Ford made a switch to the Q code motor with open chamber heads, Cobra Jet cam, dual point distributor, 4 bolt main caps and a 750 CFM, spread bore Autolite 4300D. Engine tag read K-621-S (49 state) or K-621-SG (California or Green State). Ford referred to California as the green state, hence the G added to the tag number for California cars.
-G
Thanks,
I need to take a better look at the engine they used on 1280. The only thing original I am missing from the car is intake and carb.
One more question. What would have been the original intake number?
I need to take a better look at the engine they used on 1280. The only thing original I am missing from the car is intake and carb.
One more question. What would have been the original intake number?
The original Ford part number for the intake manifold should be D0AZ-9424-C. Not sure about the casting number.
My research shows for 1972 a Pantera (pre-L) would have had a Motorcraft 4300D D2ZF-AA carb. The parts book might list other carbs as replacements, but the only original carb I've seen on a 72 is the D2ZF-AA. 1973 and later seem to use D3ZF-LA.
I don't know for certain what carb came on a 1971 Pantera, however I'm pretty sure it would have been "branded" as Autolite. 72 and later carbs have Motorcraft cast in the top. I haven't seen a D1ZF-FA, but I have seen an Autolite D1ZF-ZA, easily recognizable because of it's smaller fuel inlet. These Autolite carbs are very rare and the Mustang guys will pay $600.00 to $1000.00 depending on condition. If someone has an old 4300 spreadbore laying around and it doesn't say Motorcraft, it might be worth some big eBay dollars!
The intake part number (casting number) I've seen is D1ZE-9425-BB. The parts manual show something a little different, but D1ZE is what I've seen on unrestored Panteras.
Here's a good source for Ford parts decoding.
http://www.mustangtek.com/index.html
BTW, I don't know what that D0AZ manifold is. Most intakes with a 1970 (D0##) number are for a "square-bore", not "spread-bore". And I thought all Panteras had spreadbore carbs.
I don't know for certain what carb came on a 1971 Pantera, however I'm pretty sure it would have been "branded" as Autolite. 72 and later carbs have Motorcraft cast in the top. I haven't seen a D1ZF-FA, but I have seen an Autolite D1ZF-ZA, easily recognizable because of it's smaller fuel inlet. These Autolite carbs are very rare and the Mustang guys will pay $600.00 to $1000.00 depending on condition. If someone has an old 4300 spreadbore laying around and it doesn't say Motorcraft, it might be worth some big eBay dollars!
The intake part number (casting number) I've seen is D1ZE-9425-BB. The parts manual show something a little different, but D1ZE is what I've seen on unrestored Panteras.
Here's a good source for Ford parts decoding.
http://www.mustangtek.com/index.html
BTW, I don't know what that D0AZ manifold is. Most intakes with a 1970 (D0##) number are for a "square-bore", not "spread-bore". And I thought all Panteras had spreadbore carbs.
The D0AZ-9424-C is the Ford part number from the Pantera orange parts book. Technically, the second character is a number, not a letter. In this case, it is a zero.
I will try to find my original intake manifold and carb and post the numbers if I can find them.
I will try to find my original intake manifold and carb and post the numbers if I can find them.
jb1490,
Lets see if we are on the same page.
In a Ford part number, the first letter is the "decade".1950's = B, 1960's = C, 1970's = D, and so on. Then as you said a number comes next, D0 = 70, D1 = 71, D2 = 72, and so on. The next two letters refer to the car model the part was introduced on and something else that I don't remember off hand.
So "D0AZ" was first used in 1970 and "D1ZE" was first used in 1971.
Now a D0AZ part could show up on any car 1970 and later, but my thought was in 1970 most carbs were square-bore, so it's likely a square-bore intake. I thought the spread-bore came along in 1971, so I would expect to see an intake part number starting with "D1" for 1971.
Please post what you find, I'm trying to keep track of what's original to Panteras 1971-1974 and I don't have much info for the 71s.
Lets see if we are on the same page.
In a Ford part number, the first letter is the "decade".1950's = B, 1960's = C, 1970's = D, and so on. Then as you said a number comes next, D0 = 70, D1 = 71, D2 = 72, and so on. The next two letters refer to the car model the part was introduced on and something else that I don't remember off hand.
So "D0AZ" was first used in 1970 and "D1ZE" was first used in 1971.
Now a D0AZ part could show up on any car 1970 and later, but my thought was in 1970 most carbs were square-bore, so it's likely a square-bore intake. I thought the spread-bore came along in 1971, so I would expect to see an intake part number starting with "D1" for 1971.
Please post what you find, I'm trying to keep track of what's original to Panteras 1971-1974 and I don't have much info for the 71s.
Are these carbs stamped like the Holleys or are we talking tags ... I will have to check the attic .. I have a few laying there ...last time a CHEVY guys asked I pulled a BB Corvette carb out.
There is a metal tag at the front of the fuel bowl, but it often goes missing after a rebuild. There is also a number stamped in the base under the idle solenoid.
BTW, the carb worth the big bucks won't have "Motorcraft" cast on it. The tag in the picture is a Motorcraft tag, I don't know what an Autolite tag looks like.
BTW, the carb worth the big bucks won't have "Motorcraft" cast on it. The tag in the picture is a Motorcraft tag, I don't know what an Autolite tag looks like.
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deniscCaretaker of 8MA1244 '70 Euro Mangusta DRIVE THEM, THEY WERE MEANT TO BE DRIVEN, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ONE, BUY A POSTER!
Comp2 , I have a D5VE-AD carb core, good for parts. If you want it it's yours. Just pay shipping.
PonyCarburators are the biggest carb restorers for the Mustang world. They have a clone on EvilBay for $679. Unless you are doing a concours car I wouldn't be so picky, it's going to be under the breather anyways.
Denis
PonyCarburators are the biggest carb restorers for the Mustang world. They have a clone on EvilBay for $679. Unless you are doing a concours car I wouldn't be so picky, it's going to be under the breather anyways.
Denis
Pm sent Denis,
Thanks guys, great info.
Thanks guys, great info.
Dave,
Yes, we are on the same page for the part numbers. The third character is the product line. In this case (D0AZ), A = Ford. The fourth character is the source plant, Z = Ford Parts and Service Division.
I can't remember for sure when the spread bore started. You may be correct in that it started in 1971. Remember that the model year starts in the year before the actual year of the car. 1971 cars start selling in 1970. This would mean that if the spread bore came out on 1971 model cars, the parts began production in 1970. Just my .02.
My original carb is D1OF-EA, square bore. This does show up in the orange parts book as does a D2PF-TA, spread bore. Below are pics of my original carb. Note that it has an Autolite tag and there is no word cast into the airhorn.
John
Yes, we are on the same page for the part numbers. The third character is the product line. In this case (D0AZ), A = Ford. The fourth character is the source plant, Z = Ford Parts and Service Division.
I can't remember for sure when the spread bore started. You may be correct in that it started in 1971. Remember that the model year starts in the year before the actual year of the car. 1971 cars start selling in 1970. This would mean that if the spread bore came out on 1971 model cars, the parts began production in 1970. Just my .02.
My original carb is D1OF-EA, square bore. This does show up in the orange parts book as does a D2PF-TA, spread bore. Below are pics of my original carb. Note that it has an Autolite tag and there is no word cast into the airhorn.
John
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Second one
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Third one
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To clarify something about Ford part numbers ...
Every Ford part has 3 numbers associated with it, there's an original engineering number, a number cast or stamped into the part, and the parts book number.
There's an engineering number you will find referenced by Ford employees or by writers quoting Ford employees, Ford people are the only folks with access to these numbers. These numbers aren't important to you or I because we'll never run across them except in a magazine article, we will never have an opportunity or reason to use them. However its often the only way Ford employees will have to describe a new part.
There's a parts book number, the number the parts counter people will use to reference the part, and the number that will be on the box or packaging if you purchase the part off the shelf at Ford. The parts book number changes frequently as Ford juggles its parts inventory, tries to keep it simplified and minimized, tries to figure what subsequent parts can be used in place of an older part, etc.
When enthusiasts like you and I are talking about Ford parts, its the numbers cast or stamped into the actual part that we are referring to. These numbers are normally cast or stamped in 2 flavors, the 4 digit prefix plus the suffix, like the D2ZF-AA number in the carburetor base pictured above; or the entire casting number like D1ZX-9425-CA, which is the intake manifold for a Boss 351. 9425 is the core number, denoting an intake manifold.
When Ford enthusiasts are talking about parts, they normally never include the core number whether or not it was cast or stamped into the part; for instance if we're talking about an intake manifold, it would be redundant to include 9425 when referring to the casting number, so in the interest of brevity I would just say "the D1ZX-CA intake manifold" and everyone would know what I'm referring to.
Usually we'll refer to the four digit prefix PLUS the suffix number, the suffix is usually one or two letters. A good example is the number stamped in the carburetor pictured above, D2ZF-AA. While all of the 4300D carburetors built in 1972 were D2ZF parts, there were those jetted for manual transmission cars & those jetted for automatic transmission cars, the automatic transmission cars also required a kick-down linkage which the manual transmission cars didn't, so the suffix becomes important in making a distinction.
Sometimes even the suffix numbers are dropped when referring to certain parts. For instance changes in suffix were applied to a certain casting that had little or no impact upon the visible design of the casting; in 1970 Cleveland 4V cylinder heads include D0AE-G, D0AE-H, D0AE-M, D0AE-N and D0AE-R. To refer to 1970 4V cylinder heads as a group I would drop the suffixes and refer to them as D0AE cylinder heads. 2V heads were also D0AE heads, D0AE-E & D0AE-J to be exact, but since I had already made the distinction that I was referring to 4V heads the suffixes denoting 2V heads aren't important either.
Every Ford part has 3 numbers associated with it, there's an original engineering number, a number cast or stamped into the part, and the parts book number.
There's an engineering number you will find referenced by Ford employees or by writers quoting Ford employees, Ford people are the only folks with access to these numbers. These numbers aren't important to you or I because we'll never run across them except in a magazine article, we will never have an opportunity or reason to use them. However its often the only way Ford employees will have to describe a new part.
There's a parts book number, the number the parts counter people will use to reference the part, and the number that will be on the box or packaging if you purchase the part off the shelf at Ford. The parts book number changes frequently as Ford juggles its parts inventory, tries to keep it simplified and minimized, tries to figure what subsequent parts can be used in place of an older part, etc.
When enthusiasts like you and I are talking about Ford parts, its the numbers cast or stamped into the actual part that we are referring to. These numbers are normally cast or stamped in 2 flavors, the 4 digit prefix plus the suffix, like the D2ZF-AA number in the carburetor base pictured above; or the entire casting number like D1ZX-9425-CA, which is the intake manifold for a Boss 351. 9425 is the core number, denoting an intake manifold.
When Ford enthusiasts are talking about parts, they normally never include the core number whether or not it was cast or stamped into the part; for instance if we're talking about an intake manifold, it would be redundant to include 9425 when referring to the casting number, so in the interest of brevity I would just say "the D1ZX-CA intake manifold" and everyone would know what I'm referring to.
Usually we'll refer to the four digit prefix PLUS the suffix number, the suffix is usually one or two letters. A good example is the number stamped in the carburetor pictured above, D2ZF-AA. While all of the 4300D carburetors built in 1972 were D2ZF parts, there were those jetted for manual transmission cars & those jetted for automatic transmission cars, the automatic transmission cars also required a kick-down linkage which the manual transmission cars didn't, so the suffix becomes important in making a distinction.
Sometimes even the suffix numbers are dropped when referring to certain parts. For instance changes in suffix were applied to a certain casting that had little or no impact upon the visible design of the casting; in 1970 Cleveland 4V cylinder heads include D0AE-G, D0AE-H, D0AE-M, D0AE-N and D0AE-R. To refer to 1970 4V cylinder heads as a group I would drop the suffixes and refer to them as D0AE cylinder heads. 2V heads were also D0AE heads, D0AE-E & D0AE-J to be exact, but since I had already made the distinction that I was referring to 4V heads the suffixes denoting 2V heads aren't important either.
351C 4V (M code) intake manifolds have just one casting number:
1970 and 1971
D0AE-L
351 Cobra Jet (Q code) intake manifolds have the following casting numbers:
1971
D1ZE-BB, D1ZE-CA, D1ZE-CB
1972
D2ZE-AA
1973 and 1974
D3ZE-AA (this one has the big EGR trench along the carburetor pad)
1970 and 1971
D0AE-L
351 Cobra Jet (Q code) intake manifolds have the following casting numbers:
1971
D1ZE-BB, D1ZE-CA, D1ZE-CB
1972
D2ZE-AA
1973 and 1974
D3ZE-AA (this one has the big EGR trench along the carburetor pad)
quote:Originally posted by racerdave:
BTW, the carb worth the big bucks won't have "Motorcraft" cast on it. The tag in the picture is a Motorcraft tag, I don't know what an Autolite tag looks like.
they look the same, it was the same company after all, the name was the only thing that changed. The change took place in 1972.
-G
quote:
Originally posted by racerdave:
BTW, the carb worth the big bucks won't have "Motorcraft" cast on it. The tag in the picture is a Motorcraft tag, I don't know what an Autolite tag looks like.
they look the same, it was the same company after all, the name was the only thing that changed. The change took place in 1972.
-G
Unlike a lot of Pantera owners, some Mustang enthusiast really value original parts. Because of the name change from Autolite to Motorcraft, that spreadbore Autolite was made for just one year while Ford made a zillion Motorcraft spreadbores. You might even argue the Motorcraft was better because it had a bigger fuel inlet. But if you own a 71 BOSS 351, you want that Autolite carb. And BOSS Mustangs are prized by their owners and can sell for $100,000.00. Pantera owners throw their original parts away and most cars struggle to sell north of $30,000.00.
As far as carb prices, Pony sells a D1ZF-ZA (CLONE, not even original) for $679.50. The real deal, if you can find one, goes over $1000.00 easy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...fPartsQ5fAccessories
Originally posted by racerdave:
BTW, the carb worth the big bucks won't have "Motorcraft" cast on it. The tag in the picture is a Motorcraft tag, I don't know what an Autolite tag looks like.
they look the same, it was the same company after all, the name was the only thing that changed. The change took place in 1972.
-G
Unlike a lot of Pantera owners, some Mustang enthusiast really value original parts. Because of the name change from Autolite to Motorcraft, that spreadbore Autolite was made for just one year while Ford made a zillion Motorcraft spreadbores. You might even argue the Motorcraft was better because it had a bigger fuel inlet. But if you own a 71 BOSS 351, you want that Autolite carb. And BOSS Mustangs are prized by their owners and can sell for $100,000.00. Pantera owners throw their original parts away and most cars struggle to sell north of $30,000.00.
As far as carb prices, Pony sells a D1ZF-ZA (CLONE, not even original) for $679.50. The real deal, if you can find one, goes over $1000.00 easy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...fPartsQ5fAccessories
The D3VF-DA carb codes as Lincoln.
The D0OF-AB carb codes as Fairlane and Torino, and it also shows up in the orange Pantera parts book.
The D0OF-AB carb codes as Fairlane and Torino, and it also shows up in the orange Pantera parts book.
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Dave, I was only commenting the tags look the same except for the Autolite/Motorcraft names. (see Ron's pictures for a good example) I am aware of the Mustang world's (and many others) zeal for originality, I was at one time very involved with Mustang restorations, back in the early 80s when the craze was just getting started. I was by no means trying to diminish that aspect and I apologize if you took it that way.
-G
-G