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DeTomaso Factory in liquidation - 5/27/04

G Guest
I am very sad to report that yesterday DeTomaso Modena S.p.A. has filed for liquidation. The future of the factory is unknown at this time.

A factory spokesperson states that they will keep the name and sell off the property etc. Perhaps in the future they will try to downsize the operation. The 4x4 off-road vehicle remained in the prototype phase and never obtained production status.

Also, late last night Umberto Agnelli passed away. This is yet another blow to the Fiat Company.

The source of this information is Claudia Lodi, the DeTomaso factory communications director and Tom Tjaarda, the designer of the Pantera. We will keep you posted as further developments are known.
Dave and Linda



[This message has been edited by Admin5 (edited 05-28-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Pantera (edited 06-02-2004).]
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G GhostRidr (Guest)
For now, I'm in a watch and wait mode to see what really happens. This is definitely not good news, but it's hard to say if this is a strategic business move to rescue the company from bankruptcy, or if this is really the final death knell. If so, it is the last of the old small Italian car manufacturer. We could only then hope somebody buys the rights to the Pantera name and builds another proper one (quite a long-shot).
G GhostRidr (Guest)
The web link to the Italian news article that was posted earlier, I sent that link to a friend of mine who lives in Italy (an American who has learned Italian over the past 4 years of living there) to translate. This is what he said:

"Don't know where to begin because a total translation wouldbe quite long.
Anyway I am sure that you understood that they are going to liquidate the
company following the metting of the borad which was supposed to be held in
order to agree upon an increase of capital and look at the possibilities of
further development. Anyway it would appear that the company is in good
standings financially and they have been working on new projects. The
Manging Director said he would be trying everything in order to keep their
entire project/staff together and be looking to find another solution other
than liquidation, which he believes may casue them to lose their highly
specialized employees/technicians. They say that the company was put in
liquidation at a time when the skies were clear, imagine they mean that the
financil situation of the company is good."
P Pantera (Guest)
Dave
Thank you for the mail. I am most certainly saddened by the news of the liquidation pending. My hope is that some investors will come to the aid of the company with new money , blood, and concepts for moving into the future with a new automobile.
Best wishes in any case to all concerned. Especially to Claudia Lodi, who I have had the privilege to meet and visit with at DeTomaso in Modena Italy. Would you be so kind as to forward the letter to Claudia Lodi as I misplaced her address at the moment.
Thank you so much
Billy Star
P Pantera (Guest)
As we receive more informaton from knowledgeable persons in Europe, we are of the mind that DeTomaso will arise again. Hopefully leaner and meaner. Perhaps the SUV was too ambitious of an undertaking. If DeTomaso Modena can return to its core business of building good looking, Ford-powered, mid-engine cars, we are sure there will be ready and willing buyers. We for one are. We pledge our support. Pantera International
G GhostRidr (Guest)
I think DeTomaso's biggest downfall was not getting the Pantera Si USDOT compliant. That and the Guara both. The US is where more of their cars were sold than anywhere, and if they don't cater to that fan base, well, that's just poor business.

Kevin, Mr. DeTomaso's death, nor the closing of the factory will have any affect on Pantera values. They haven't made that car for a very long time, so it's not like they suddenly stopped production.
P pantera874 (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Perry:
Any guess as to what this does to our Pantera values?

Especially when we go up against the likes of Ferrari and Lamborghini?


Nothing, and if the parts get rare and the prices go up for them, people can buy a real exotic car like Ferrari and Lamborghini.
If Matt thinks,the downfall was that they didn't bring the SI and the Guara to the US, he is totally wrong. If they would have done that,DeTomaso would be closed earlier. I think he has never seen under what poor quality DeTomaso has buildt his cars after Ford stopped there work with them. The lawers in the US are waiting for companies like that. The last 20 years DeTomaso lived from the money he got from other businessdeals like Maserati, Innocenti, Moto Guzzi and several hotels. DeTomaso SPA didn't make any money over the years. The parts department lived from the parts that they had in stock for more than 30 years. The never reproduced any sparepart. It's nearly empty today. They only have left the things, they couldn't sell over the years.


------------------
Roland
G GhostRidr (Guest)
No, YOU'RE wrong. You don't know jack about the US car market.

FACT: More DeTomasos were sold in the US than any other country. How can you not realize that DeTomaso not sending later models to the US it would have a massive negative impact on sales? That's pretty basic business sense there, sorry you can't figure that out, has nothing to do with build quality.

And I've yet to hear any Guara or Si owner complain about build quality. You are the only one.
ST Si Targa (Guest)
Roland is wrong.
Since 1979 I have owned several De Tomaso cars like a 1973 Pantera GTS, a 1975 and 1977 Deauville, a 1980 Longchamp GTS, a 1980 Pantera Gruppo 3, a 1985 Pantera GT5-S and a 1992 Pantera Si.
Now I have found my ultimate garage, including a 1993 Pantera Si Targa and a 1996 Guara.
After this long time of owning De Tomaso cars, I can only say that the early Panteras were the baddest cars. Built quality became better and better in the eighties and the Si and the Guara are the best quality De Tomaso cars I ever had.
The built quality is worlds apart from the early cars and all works perfect.
I also never had problems to get spare parts from the factory.
In the year 2001 I have lost one of the center caps on a rear wheel from my Si. They had it not available new, so Claudia removed one for me from the last built Pantera from their museum. Some weeks later she sent me a new one.
So I can say that it is not true, that they never have reproduced spare parts.
P pantera874 (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Bradley:
No, YOU'RE wrong. You don't know jack about the US car market.

FACT: More DeTomasos were sold in the US than any other country. How can you not realize that DeTomaso not sending later models to the US it would have a massive negative impact on sales? That's pretty basic business sense there, sorry you can't figure that out, has nothing to do with build quality.

And I've yet to hear any Guara or Si owner complain about build quality. You are the only one.


Oh Matt.
You as a represntive of Poca schould be better informed. How much money Ford lost on the Pantera project? Wasn't it about 1000.- Dollar each car? Didn't Ford send back the first batch of Panteras becoause they where poor built? How many Guaras and SI owners do you know? And how many do you have seen personally? As always on cars: don't ask the owners, ask the pre-owners. They can tell you. Nearly no of the "after Ford area" build cars are in first hand in Europe. For example: None of the "engeneers" of DeTomaso was able to connect the Ford electronics of the Guara right to the car. They tried and tried and tried. At least a swedish owner made the solution and gave it to DeTomaso. I that high technical level ? Also the BMW instrumentpanel in the dash always showed: "Check hydraulic level of Automatic suspension" Solution of DeTomaso: piece of black tape over the sighn. At one point youre right: after i have seen Chryslers her in Europe, yes, this is the technical lever for the US market.
RAW HIDE
Roland

------------------
Roland
G GhostRidr (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by pantera874:
Oh Matt.
You as a represntive of Poca schould be better informed. How much money Ford lost on the Pantera project? Wasn't it about 1000.- Dollar each car?


Uh, no, they didn't, wrong again. The first 100 or so they lost money on doing repaints and rewiring, but the rest were all profitable. They bought them from DeTomaso for $6000, sold them in the US for $10000. Do the math.

quote:
Didn't Ford send back the first batch of Panteras becoause they where poor built?


Ford never sent Panteras back to DeTomaso. They sent some to Bill Stroppe in California, but not back to Italy. I know, I've talked to people who were there--have you?

quote:
How many Guaras and SI owners do you know? And how many do you have seen personally? As always on cars: don't ask the owners, ask the pre-owners. They can tell you.


The post above, from a DeTomaso owner 9 times over seems to disagree with you. Are you going to tell him he is wrong? I know this may come as a shock to your Roland, but this "internet" thing goes all over the world. If there were serious build quality issues, believe me, they would have made it to the internet by now. They haven't--just you.

quote:
Nearly no of the "after Ford area" build cars are in first hand in Europe.


Post Ford-era cars aren't predominately in Europe? Where are they then?

quote:
For example: None of the "engeneers" of DeTomaso was able to connect the Ford electronics of the Guara right to the car. They tried and tried and tried. At least a swedish owner made the solution and gave it to DeTomaso. I that high technical level?


I have no idea what you are talking about. By your statement, the cars should have been practically undriveable due to DeTomaso's electronic ineptness. Maybe some owner out there did fix an electronic issue and share it with DeTomaso, big deal.

quote:
Also the BMW instrumentpanel in the dash always showed: "Check hydraulic level of Automatic suspension" Solution of DeTomaso: piece of black tape over the sighn. At one point youre right: after i have seen Chryslers her in Europe, yes, this is the technical lever for the US market.
RAW HIDE
Roland


So what, I have a check engine light that keeps coming on in my Mazda, you don't see me running to the message board there and complaining about bad build quality.

Why do you even come here Roland? You've made it quite clear that you think build quality is crap, that you don't get along with the company, and are happy they closed. You don't sound like a fan, just a bitter person.

[This message has been edited by Matt Bradley (edited 06-04-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Matt Bradley (edited 06-04-2004).]
P pantera874 (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Bradley:
So what, I have a check engine light that keeps coming on in my Mazda, you don't see me running to the message board there and complaining about bad build quality.

Why do you even come here Roland? You've made it quite clear that you think build quality is crap, that you don't get along with the company, and are happy they closed. You don't sound like a fan, just a bitter person.

[This message has been edited by Matt Bradley (edited 06-04-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Matt Bradley (edited 06-04-2004).]

OH yeah. I'm wrong, Ford was wrong, Qvale was wrong.
You got me. Ford stopped, because they made too much money. Maybe you should tell potential investors about this golden egg in italy. Better is you spend your own money and may be you find someone else. You will be the multi million dollar man. The carworld is waiting for that. De Tomaso is the best car in the sportscar world. If you believe it or not, i still love the cars. I have attended nearly every europeen DeTomaso meeting with my car. I was several times in Vegas at the poca event. So, at least for what do i have to come over? Shall i fix your Miata?
The King is dead, long lives the King !
Roland
P panterawast (Guest)
Hi Panterafreaks!
I think a great mistake of De Tomaso was in the past, that they did not try the last years to cooperate with other global players such as Ford, BMW, etc. for worldwide marketing and sales promotion such as AUDI with Lambo, FIAT with Ferrari and Maserati or VW with Bentley.
A little car manufacturer like De Tomaso can only survive in the future with the support (money, technical progress, economic, worldwide marketing, etc.) of huge global car players! What do you think??

Have a good time with our Panteras!!
P pantera874 (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by RoBeRt:
I think that De Tomaso was to his last day alive his own man, he didn't kiss ass, suck up or sell
out!! A cowboy in the spirit of John Wayne And like our President (A Cowboy) also that
didn't sell out to the UN the French, Spain Russia or any German ....HA HA HA HA HA......HA! YEEEEE Ha.......

OH YEAH.
Let's hope and pray, America won't end like DeTomaso.
BTW, we never wanted to buy you and fo sure we never wanted be owned by you.
Holdrihojoho.
D deeb (Guest)
It�s a sad thing. The end of era. But why fight over the reasons why - or search in desparation for possible saviors? The unfortunate news here has little to do with the car, its original build quality, Ford, its importers, or the rest of the automotive marketers, as all the promotion in the world could not alone make a success or failure of this or any other model. It is a fact of economic life. Some of the best businesses - including some great automobile manufacturers - have suffered a similar fate, for a variety of simple and complex reasons.

None of which has anything to do with the one pure truth. This independent and unique little company, knowingly or unknowingly at its earliest stages, created at least one jewel - maybe two or three - each a unique piece of automotive art that 30 years later makes our knees weak and our hearts beat fast. The brand and its history are safe. The many Pantera and DeTomaso lovers and the endless variety of modifications we make to our cars will forever honor its creators.

David http://www.canspanad.com/pantera/
P pantera874 (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by RoBeRt:

[b]in spite of people like you that want us to fail we will NOT fail but we will as usual have to
carry your load to save your JACKASS! if the west had not had a presence in Germany i think
you might today be a member of the TRABANT drivers club! HA HA HA HA....HA![/B]

I once said,"Sure I wave the Germann flag. Do you know a better flag to wave? Sure I love my country with all her faults. I'm not ashamed of that, never have been and never will be."
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