I'll take all three... PM me the info and I will send payment...

OMG! DO NOT SAY BUSHINGS! That means that I am FOREVER BANNED! i SHOULD BE! I feel the urge to say it now...but I'm holding on...so far!

I have no issue that this is by far the BEST BEARING available anywhere. (I never said that it wasn't). It is also the BEST ENGINEERING SOLUTION to that part and likely the best, most accurately manufactured that can be made. So why argue?

Anyone who would suggest that it is out of round by just holding it in their hand, I would check THEIR credentials on. Seriously. What a dipshit!

Do we need to debate on the definition of round too?

Buy these now before there is another panty twisting incident! PLEASE!

You know who, doesn't often come to down to Earth and EVEN speak to just mortals like us none the less make an offer like this! It is absolutely inexplicable but do not question it.

I think that it is likely that the problem is now solved? So stop bitchin' over nothing.

BELIEVE IT!

Marlin, please fabricate two (2) for me and PM me with details.

Thanks!

Bill

MJ, I too would like two and let me know how to get you paid.

Ken

Is it not that a Bronze-steel Alloy pilot bushing not wearing out so fast as an all bronze bearing which is softer ?

On my race Mustang I use a Bronze - steel alloy bearing because the all bronze is wearing out fast , because the hard shifting on high rpm's, dual clutch aso. ,whit the result that my dual clutch dont came ,, free"

Now my bronze steel alloy bearing dont wear out and my input shaft looks  also good.

I am not a fan of roller bearings , when they failed there is always more damage on the inputshaft.

Dont want involved of this yes or no war , it's just my experience and want to share this.

Simon

@simon posted:

Is it not that a Bronze-steel Alloy pilot bushing not wearing out so fast as an all bronze bearing which is softer ?

On my race Mustang I use a Bronze - steel alloy bearing because the all bronze is wearing out fast , because the hard shifting on high rpm's, dual clutch aso. ,whit the result that my dual clutch dont came ,, free"

Now my bronze steel alloy bearing dont wear out and my input shaft looks  also good.

I am not a fan of roller bearings , when they failed there is always more damage on the inputshaft.

Dont want involved of this yes or no war , it's just my experience and want to share this.

Simon

AS I UNDESTAND IT, the caution here is that it is thought that the ZF input shaft is not hardened to the level of the Ford top loader.

A bronze oilite bearing is the best option.

Racecars all vary according to exactly what they are put through. Experience with each will tend to determine where additional changes need to be made.

While the drivetrain of a vintage Mustang (I have two) is as close as you can get to the Pantera, without being a Pantera, in this instance, there is a difference in the durability and therefore the engineering approach to the pilot bearing needs.

I don't think that any one really was debating that the ball bearing or pin bearing was better then oilite, they were suggesting other solutions that others with knowledge and experience are using as a possible solution to the unavailability of the oilite bearings?

You may read it differently? That's fine.

Ford has been using the oilite bearings seemingly forever? Considering the negative characteristics of the possible substitutions, I tend to agree here with the original Ford thinking. It is the right part for the application.

I think that has been illustrated well in these discussions?

I would think that if someone with a racecar is going in to the bellhouse for servicing the clutch and the clutch discs for wear much more then a street car would need, then the pilot bushings would likely need attention at that time as well?

To me, the new availability of Marlin's part solves the problem, at least for Panteras. Obviously it also has other Ford applications that it could be used for as well?

Everyone is going to make that selection based upon their own requirements but to me, the problem is solved, at least for now.

Just a general reflection and above all without wanting to open any controversy.

When a soft material rubs against a hard material, it is often the hard material that wears more than the soft because abrasive particles can become embedded in the soft material and it then acts like a grinding wheel.
I don't know if this applies to the case of the pilot bearing because there must be abrasive particles in the environment.

Good idea the O-ring, but it can move back with the expansion of the shaft; why not machine a housing for a lip seal?

@rene4406 posted:

Just a general reflection and above all without wanting to open any controversy.

When a soft material rubs against a hard material, it is often the hard material that wears more than the soft because abrasive particles can become embedded in the soft material and it then acts like a grinding wheel.
I don't know if this applies to the case of the pilot bearing because there must be abrasive particles in the environment.

All "bearings" wear.

In this case the bearing is self lubricating. It does not eliminate wear, but reduces it.

Ideally the lubricant absorbs the wear particles.

So far, there have not been any, or not many, input shafts that have shown the need to be resurfaced and bearings made undersized. If anything, it is the bearings that are showing the wear, which is the desired result.

It is essentially, "the fuseable link".

The rate of which the bearing wears is called the "bearing life".

In the situation of the Pantera we think of the life as around the life of the clutch assembly itself. That's all it needs to be.

Until someone invents or discovers a frictionless bearing, this design is more then adequate.

It works. "If it isn't broken...don't fix it".

There has been some discoloring of the input shafts shown. I acknowledge that. To me it is overheated lubricant solidifying. It generally cleans off which also seems to be an indication that the input shaft is hardened enough?

You don't want to harden the steel to the point at which it becomes brittle.

The concern with a lubricant here would be that it had enough quantity to contaminate the friction between the pressure plate, clutch disc, flywheel.

The oilite volume has proved to be it is right where it should be based upon the expected/desired life of the bearing.

I suppose anything is possible but empirical analysis has not shown that leaking lubricant out of the bearing, is any kind of an issue with the clutch itself. It's just the best solution to the situation so far.

A seal is just not needed and would be needless overkill with likely it's own issues?

It is just that the bearing needs to be changed at some point in the future, not the input shaft. It is the best solution. Not a perfect one.

Order two from Marlin so you will have a spare.

@marlinjack posted:

...Because I DON"T FEEL Like It!!

I Got Your 'Expansion of the Shaft'!!! and You're a 'Professional BULLSHITTER'!!

The O Ring Must Rotate Freely with the Shaft Independant of The Bearing.

WHEN You Start Machining Your Bearings...You Can Machine Your Idea into it!

You Posed the Problem, I offered the Fix.

A 'Genius Engineer' from "The Best School in France", should realize that.

And Your Thoughts of imbedded Grit in the Bearing wearing out a 'Gear Hardened' Shaft, are BULLSHIT!!

A "Legend in his Own Mind!"

Folks, see what I Mean about this guy Following me around this Forum!

You need to Start your own thread, and stay the hell Out of mine.

I'am here to help with bearings...and you're all Talk and Theory.

...Maybe you can get a job running a Laundromat, somewhere!

Did you ever see the bearings in those washing machines? They look very similar to these "pilot bearings" in the Pantera! Funny you should mention that! No oilite though. Solid bronze. They eat up the unhardened shafts!

@marlinjack posted:

...GOOD!! Show Me Your PROOF!

I'm Laughing at that guy!

To future Customers, I Appreciate Your Business! The Bearings are here when You Need them. For all others, they can  'Take It Or Leave It!'

MJ

I predict that you are going to need to hire more machinists to handle the orders.

These will fit all Ford small block applications with the Ford transmission and small input shafts.

You are now the ONLY source.

110? You need ac to protect the equipment. You' re going to be very busy. Plus u don't want flashbacks of "gooks in the wire".

What is the o-ring doing? What is it sealing?

841 Bronze SAE - Sintered Bronze

-124 Products

SAE 841 Product Guide

MJ, I would like to purchase one.
Please PM me with payment and shipping details. Thanks

...Tammys' Bearings Shipped Out!! Whos Next to order up??

...The New Shipment of Oilite Bronze has Arrived. Tested NON-MAGNETIC!!

PM to Order. And for Mailing address for Money Order.

Thank You

...2 More Oilite Bronze Bearings are Born! These are for Ken in Washington.

The Row of Bearings sitting beside the Lathe are ALL REJECTS, from the 18 Years, Gone By! Either TOO Small a O.D. or TOO Big a I.D. Some as Less as 0.002" Off. They can be used to Machine Different Bearings.

The Gage is 0.67001" The Bore is 0.6715"

Can you make one that would fit the 429/460 crankshaft?

...See! Marlin Makes Mistakes!

ONLY GOD is Perfect!! But He Gave Me the Skills to Strive to Be. I Never Thought to Sell Anybody a Bearing that I Would NOT Install in My Own Pantera! If it was Not (Nearly) Perfect, I would Just Start Over and Machine One to My Higher Level of Discipline. Hence All the Rejects...on Average, One Per Year.

In the Photos you can see the Yellow Oil that Oozes out of the pores During Machining.

@forestg posted:

Can you make one that would fit the 429/460 crankshaft?

...I can Machine for You, a Bearing for Anything!! Just give me the Measurements of the Shaft* and the Counterbore Pocket of the Crankshaft! To the 0.001" *Are we talking for a ZF-2 Transaxle?? Got It! The Crankshaft Pocket should measure out to a 'Nominal' Size...such as 1.375" (1-3/8") for the 351 Cleveland. I put the Bearings .0050" Max. Over-Sized, so they 'Hammer' In, to Stay In!

I assume by shaft you mean the input shaft of the transmission. If so it is for the Pantera transaxle so would be the same as the ones you have been doing. I do not have access at this time to the counterbore but I can give you the OD that is listed for this engine if that works.

Forest

...Yes, give me the Crankshaft Pocket measure in your book. For the -2 Transaxle!! We are a Go!

Custom Machining Bronze Bar. $125.00* USD Shipping in USA is FREE. NO Worldwide Shipping.

Thank You,

Marlin

* Future Custom Machined LARGER Diameter Bearings, 2", will be $145.00 Due to the Increase Cost of Solid 841 Oilite Bronze Bars. The 351C to ZF-2, Oilite 841 Bearings will Remain at $125.00. All with the Shipping FREE.

OD is listed as 1.850 with a depth of .500. How do you want payment?

Forest

...Yes!! OfCourse I have One of these Bronze Bearings in My Own Pantera! It has been My Testbed for these, for Many Years! As yet, I have Never had to Replace the Original Bearing. It is so Smooth and Quiet, I just forget it's even there! I would say, I have Over 15,000 Miles On It. They are the Best They can Possibly Be!

Thank You,

@marlinjack I would like to order as well please…   PM

@forestg posted:

OD is listed as 1.850 with a depth of .500. How do you want payment?

Forest

...O.D. at 1.850" Got It! I'll put It at 1.8540".

Bronze Bar is on the way. I'll let You know when Your payment arrives, by PM.

Thank You,

...This was removed by Mistake. Should answer a Lot of Questions. Any other Questions Please ask. MJ

  PANTERA - GT40.  Oilite Bronze Pilot Bearing Installation Instructions. 351C to ZF-2

Marlin, FYI ... Isky makes solid roller lifters that, I assume, use similar bearing technology as you use in your pilot bearings. I purchased a set about ten years ago and they were problem free. They are expensive, however, they tend to not fail. Anyone who has ever had a needle bearing fail in a roller lifter, knows what happens to all those "free" needles. Isky keeps pretty quiet about the materials involved but they do say the bearing material has a 350% greater load rating than the needle bearings they use in other lifters.

Here's the only photo I could find.

...Thats Because ONLY ONE 'Needle' is Ever Taking the FULL Directed 'Centered' FORCE, at any One Moment, Theoretically!! Where-as The Bronze Takes The Full Load Spread-Over HALF of the Inner Diameter, at the Axle. Just Thinking Out-Loud, I could be Totally Wrong!

Very Interesting! I never knew of that Lifter! 350% More Load Bearing!?

Thanks for Posting This.

@marlinjack posted:

“ONLY ONE 'Needle' is Ever Taking the FULL Directed 'Centered' FORCE, at any One Moment, Theoretically!! Where-as The Bronze Takes The Full Load Spread-Over HALF of the Inner Diameter, at the Axle.”

That’s exactly what their advertising says!

@marlinjack posted:

...Thats Because ONLY ONE 'Needle' is Ever Taking the FULL Directed 'Centered' FORCE, at any One Moment, Theoretically!! Where-as The Bronze Takes The Full Load Spread-Over HALF of the Inner Diameter, at the Axle. Just Thinking Out-Loud, I could be Totally Wrong!

Very Interesting! I never knew of that Lifter! 350% More Load Bearing!?

Thanks for Posting This.

I think that you are 100% correct. It is a big advantage of this oilite type bearing and that is the weakness of the roller bearing. It does depend on the oilite material having the bearing (as in bearing the load) capacity necessary to take the load.

I've seen the roller (pin rollers) "cage" have problems as well.

The solid material will still tend to take the majority of the load at one point along the radius and will indicate overloading by cracking at that point. If it is too soft, it will just crumble.

There should be two engineering specs for the material determined by the manufacturers testing. Compression capacity and tensile (stretching) capacity. But you need to know the amount of the load being placed upon it.

In the case of the roller lifters that would have to be the spring pressure.

Bending capacity would generally be viewed as tensile strength that I am aware of.

Off-topic but....GMs with roller lifters often have small mesh screens glued into the valley over the oil returns to catch the (expected) roller needles from a catastrophic lifter failure also taking out the oil pump, crank & rods, etc.

...I tried a Video today (8/28) This single Bearing Shipped Out Today, to 'Joe A.' The Bearings are Machined and Shipped, in Order of Receiving Payment.

The Bearing is Reversed and Spun with the Gage, Running True, Proving 'Zero Error Concentricity and Axial Alignment'. The Video won't load.

...Remove from chuck, reverse and re-chuck by 'Feel', with-out dialing-in, and have the Gage still run True...is a 'Near Impossibility'! It is Testament to the Accuracy of the Machine.

Also when the Oilite Bronze Heats Up and then, Cools, the Diameter Grows LARGER! Time Must be Taken to Let the Bearing Cool Down... and Cut to Finish, .001" at a Time. Before removing from the Chuck!

This Bearing went out to Joe A Today.

...Remember, a .001" Too Far, and the 'Work' is Junked. I'm posting a Picture of a Bearing that came out of My Pantera. It was the First I Ever Machined, and was Precise to the 1.3750" of the 351C Crank Pocket! It Installed Easily, But was Too Loose, and Spun in the Pocket. It DID NOT come out of the Pocket, until I pulled the Transaxle, to remove the Engine for Other reasons, and The Bearing was Hanging Off the Input Shaft! That is why, from the Second Bearing, (Now in My Car) On, I Machine the O.D.'s to 1.380".

The warn marks are at 1.3690", but the Un-Warn O.D. IS AT 1.380"...It Must have 'Grown' Somehow!! Testing the I.D. with the Gage, Fits, Spun Smoothly, but was a 'Little Snug'! The Cause of coming Loose in the Crank Pocket, and wearing Down. I Know I put it at 1.3750".

MJ

...Forest Ordered One of These. Pilot Bearing for His '460' to mate with the ZF-2 Transaxle. These are The Big Ones!

We have No Problem Machining Custom Bearings for You!. All we need, is the I.D. and O.D. (Shaft and Pocket) Measurements, Accurate to .001".

Who's Next??

$145.00 USD Shipping FREE

2" Oilite Bronze Bar, Tested NON-Magnetic

MJ

...I Machined (2). One is waiting for the Next Buyer with a 460 and a ZF-2.

I have Bearings for the 351 Cleveland to ZF-2, Waiting for Sale. The Matched Pair in the Near Background.

MJ

Bearing received, thank you.

Forest