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quote:
trustworthiness
respect
responsibility
fairness
caring
citizenship


Larry these values were copied from some sort of religious organization and you being fortunate to live in a community as I DO that has adotped these values is great .. but a healthy amount of schools in the USA dont have this sort of school system. Where i live I pay 17k per year for taxes and they are asking us to by school supplies .. also just think the opposite end of the spectrum .. is the inner city schools in NYC when Gulianni was elected mayor .. he had to garnish the parents welfare based on the childs attendance. From these schools this leads us into the guns 13 year olds are carrying to school.

It isnt the legal guns we are worried about .. its the teenagers from Towns surrounding hard working americans ...who now think going across town to do a home invasion is a friday night out. The children in our district are not the kids weare worried about.

They cant even say the Pledge of Aligience any more in school ?

Ron
quote:
Originally posted by Husker:
Mark, 294 million gun owners? As of the last census the population of the US was about 300 million. Only 6 million people don't own guns? So damn near every man, woman and child in the US owns a gun? I think that number may be off just a tad.


I don't know about the exact figures on how many guns are in America, but before the election and ever since, guns have been selling at a record pace. Ammunition is also very hard to get now and it is all being driven by the possible laws that may go into effect in the future. People that would have never thought of buying an AK-47 or AR-15 are buying or trying to buy them now. This is going to make many honest citizens future gun dealers. Many of these none enthusiast assault rifle buyers only want these weapons for resale and proffit. This reselling isn't illegal, but it does get around having to do a background check on the buyer when the seller is not a licensed dealer. I own a home based firearms business and I can tell you right now, business has never been better. My only problem is getting the weapons that my customers want, which is due to the high demand and the manufactures ability to keep up with it.

On a more positive note, I am begining to get the Pantera ready for the Reno event in June. With the stop over and route that we will be taking, it should be about 1200 miles one way from our home in southeastern Arizona. This will also be taking us through some very hot parts of Arizona and Nevada. I am hoping that other owners will be taking their Panteras to this event. Since members seemed to want a change from the Las Vegas location, I am hoping to see more Panteras in Reno this year.
So this leads me to my first statement ...LOL

What most funny is I;m scared of both Doctors and Guns about equally ....

why because its not the legal guns and honest people you have to worry about ...the criminals are going to rob you at gun point and steel your guns ... they have nothing to lose ...you have your Pantera to lose ..who ya going to leave it to ??? LOL

Ron
quote:
Originally posted by larryw:
I mean I know where you think/hope it will wind up, but are you sure?


I generally know the people that I sell to and I have a clearance from the BATF on their background check before the sale can go through. This is the exact same background check that a normal gun store does when a firearm is sold. There is no guarantee that the weapon will not be stolen or if they sell it to an individual that turns out to be a criminal. If private individuals were required to have a background check done on anyone that they sell a gun to, that might help control who is getting these weapons. The laws for that are not in place at this time and that is a very big loop hole right now.

Based on your comment, I take it you are anti gun and I respect that. If all guns were taken away from everyone, there would be a reduction in gun accidents and gun crime, but it will only take the true criminals a short time before they will be armed again. If we made alcohol illegal, just think of all the alcohol related auto accidents that we could eliminate and all the lives that will be saved. It is not a perfect world and it never will be.
..... when your staring down the barrel of a 38 cal .. of some dirtbag on 126 str in Harlem NY and all you have is a pipe wrench and your helpers teeth a chattering and the first thing that flashes thru your mind is this guy who holds the gun has nothing to loose ... the second thing is HOW DO I GET OUT OF THIS SITUATION ..and the third is how the hell did he get a gun ?

You start to wonder ?
Everyone wants what they can't have.

Look at history-make it illegal and all you do is fuel underground enterprise. Alcohol, cigars, drugs, prostitution, gambling, even exotic European cars. Making it illegal only makes it more interesting to criminals who will make money off the inflated black market prices.

Its hard to quantify how much it would be restricted but it most definately will not dry up. Criminals will always have guns. You can't argue that. The only arguement I see is whether law abiding citizens should have them. I have yet to hear a lucid arguement against.
Last edited by fahrenheit351
It's like passing a tax law... Or contribution laws... or Ethics law... LOL... Only honest people abide...


$34,000: the
amount of federal taxes Secretary of the Treasury Timothy Geithner
(D) failed to pay during his employment at the
International Monetary Fund despite
receiving extra compensation and explanatory brochures that
described his tax
liabilities.

$75,000: the
amount of money the head of the powerful tax-writing committee,
Rep. Charlie Rangel (D-NY), was forced to report on his taxes
after the discovery he had
not reported income from a Costa Rican rental
property. His excuses for the failure
started with blaming his wife, then his accountant and finally the
fact that he didn't speak Spanish.

$93,000: the
amount of petty cash each
Congressional representative voted to give
themselves in January 2009 during the
height of an economic meltdown.

$133,900: the
amount Fannie Mae "invested" in Chris
Dodd (D-CT), head of the powerful Senate
Banking Committee, presumably to repel oversight of the GSE prior
to its meltdown. Said meltdown helped touch off the current
economic crisis. In only a few years time, Fannie also "invested"
over $105,000 in then-Senator Barack
Obama.

$140,000: the
amount of back taxes and interest Cabinet nominee Tom Daschle (D) was forced
to cough up after the vetting process revealed significant,
unexplained tax
liabilities.

$356,000: the
approximate amount of income and deductions Daschle (D) was forced to report on his amended 2005
and 2007 tax returns after being caught cheating on his
taxes. This includes $255,256 for the use of
a car service, $83,333 in unreported income, and $14,963 in
charitable contributions for which he has no
receipts.

Today,
after his nomination was withdrawn, every Democrat on the
Committee stated they would have voted for him if it had come to a
vote..

$800,000: the
amount of "sweetheart" mortgages Senate Banking Chairman Chris Dodd
(D-CT) received from Countrywide Financial,
the details for which he has refused to release details despite
months of promises to do so. Countrywide was once the nation's
largest mortgage lender and linked to Government-Sponsored Entities
like Fannie Mae and Freddie
Mac. Their meltdown precipitated the current
financial crisis. Just days ago in Pennsylvania, Countrywide was
forced to pay $150,000,000 in mortgage assistance following "a state
investigation that concluded that Countrywide relaxed its
underwriting standards to sell risky loans to consumers who did not
understand them and could not afford
them."

$1,000,000: the
estimated amount of donations by Denise Rich, wife of fugitive
Marc Rich, to Democrat interests and the William J. Clinton
Foundation (his library) in an
apparent quid pro quo
deal that resulted in a pardon for Mr. Rich. The pardon was reviewed
and blessed by now Obama Attorney General and then Deputy AG Eric
Holder, despite numerous requests by government officials to turn it
down.

$12,000,000: the
amount of TARP money provided to
community bank OneUnited despite the fact it
did not qualify for funds, and was "under attack from its
regulators for allegations of poor lending practices and
executive-pay abuses." It turns out Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA), a key contributor to the Fannie Mae
meltdown, just happens to be married to one of
the bank's ex-directors.

$23,500,000: The
upper range of net worth Rep. Allan Mollohan (D-WV) accumulated in
four years time according to The Washington
Post through earmarks of "tens of
millions of dollars to groups associated with his own business
partners."

$2,000,000,000: ($2
billion) the approximate amount of money House Appropriations
Chairman David Obey (D-WI) is earmarking related to his son's lobbying
efforts. Craig Obey is "a top lobbyist for the
nonprofit group" that would receive a roughly $2 billion component
of the "Stimulus" package.

$3,700,000,000: ($3.7
billion) not to be outdone, this is the estimated value of various defense contracts awarded to a
company controlled by the husband of Rep. Diane Feinstein
(D-CA). Despite an obvious
conflict-of-interest as "a
member of20the Military Construction Appropriations subcommittee,
Sen. Feinstein voted for appropriations worth billions to her
husband's firms
."

$4,190,000,000: ($4.19
billion) the amount of money in the so-called "Stimulus" package
devoted to fraudulent voter registration ACORN
group under the auspices of "Community
Stabilization Activities". ACORN is currently the subject of a RICO suit in
Ohio.

$1,646,000,000,000 ($1.646
trillion): the approximate amount of annual United States
exports endangered by the "Stimulus" package,
which provides a "Buy American" stricture. According to
international trade experts, a "US-EU trade war looms",
which could result in a worldwide economic depression reminiscent of
that touched off by the protectionist Smoot-Hawley
Act.

Michelle
Obama was hired at a Chicago Hospital right after her husband
was elected to the Illinois Senate for a bit above $100,000.
When Obama 20 was elected to the US Senate, her salary was tripled to
more than $300,000 after Senator Obama earmarked many millions of
dollars for the hospital in his short time in the Senate. During the
campaign for President by Obama, Michelle Obama continued to draw her
salary even though not there. When inauguration day came -- and went,
the hospital eliminated her job. The importance of a $300,000 job
can be overstated -- and eliminated.

It's not just a culture of
corruption. It's a culture of corruption and stupidity. And appear to be
above the law. All of the aforementioned clowns (except
Daschle) are still in office, ruling like the royalty they've
become.
I'm not anti gun at all. Got a bunch of 'em.

I've handled guns since I was a child. My parents were both involved in WW2, my father as a soldier and my mother as a civilian caught in the crossfire of occupied Holland.

Toy guns were forbidden in my house for exactly that reason. I was taught how to use them and respect them. I'm looking forward to teaching my daughter the same.

I can also tell you EXACTLY where every gun or piece of ammunition I have had responsibility for is.
A friend of mine took a really good approach that worked out very well... He tought his young son to shoot, then he tought him to clean and properly care for his firearm. Then, he MADE the kid go shoot, made him clean the gun when he really wanted to play video games. Trust me, you can leave a firearm laying around this kid..lol.. He has no desire to "play" w/a firearm. The kid is trained, the firearm is not mystery and it has no magical appeal... worked perfect.
Live out in the country away from town a few miles. When we moved here we talked about an alarm system and determined we did not need one. I am not so concerned about a tool being stolen as I am our safety.

I hear more and more stories about crazy meth addicts every day. A little over a year ago 2 guys cranked up on meth broke into a nice house just a little down the road....While everyone was asleep. 2 adults, 4 kids. It set their alarm off and they chased them off with a hand gun.

By the end of the week we had an alarm system too. I really hate cleaning blood out of tile grout! Some times you just have to get the tile grout re-done and it never matches!
quote:
It's not just a culture of
corruption. It's a culture of corruption and stupidity. And appear to be
above the law.

All your examples seem to be about money.

And some of them certainly do have a stench about them.

However, you left out the one recent episode that has value far above any you sighted:

The stupidity, corruption, lies and disdain for the law that has now resulted in the deaths of 4,865 American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Larry

If you think this is an unfair comparison, like apples to oranges, then just look up the current (and the estimated future) monetary cost of those two war fronts.
Last edited by lf-tp2511
quote:
Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
[QUOTE].

However, you left out the one recent episode that has value far above any you sighted:

The stupidity, corruption, lies and disdain for the law that has now resulted in the deaths of 4,865 American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Larry


Why didn't you mention the desire for the total annihilation of all infidels by Islamic extremists as the cause of the loss of 4,685 lives in Iraq and Afghanistan???????
quote:
Why didn't you mention the desire for the total annihilation of all infidels by Islamic extremists as the cause of the loss of 4,685 lives in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Because we expect irrational, hateful, built-on-lies and mis-information beliefs, and the results that come hand-in-hand with that type of thinking, from Islamic extremists.

We do not, or at least should not, expect that from our President.

Larry
You think those issues are only about money??.. WOW! Is that how the whole "Respect, citizenship, trust" thing works at the school you mentioned??... "It's about the money now", "It was only about sex" before. So it sounds like you have cheating a loved one and stealing money covered..lol.. Pretty funny.

You seem to try to assign a lot of impact to your issues about the last admin. ?? Can you be more specific? Can you provide a list of the lies, broken laws, etc you refer to?.. (Like I did)?.. This way we can make note of your position and we can all help each other watch over our officials. In order for a persons "personal logic" to have integrity, it must be carried through all things, lest it become a rank idealistic, superficial position subject to change by fleeting external influences of the same description. Smiler
I see only Democrats mentioned above - Daschle, Dodd, Rangel, Clinton, Waters, Mollohan, Obey and Feinstein.

Now, I'm just a dumb Canadian, but I find it hard to believe that there are no corrupt Republicans.

This thread started out as an interesting argument with merit on both sides and an opportunity for enlightenment about how others have dealt with this.

But it seem like it has collapsed into just another political argument.
quote:
Originally posted by David B:
I see only Democrats mentioned above - Daschle, Dodd, Rangel, Clinton, Waters, Mollohan, Obey and Feinstein.

Now, I'm just a dumb Canadian, but I find it hard to believe that there are no corrupt Republicans.

This thread started out as an interesting argument with merit on both sides and an opportunity for enlightenment about how others have dealt with this.

But it seem like it has collapsed into just another political argument.


Oh, there are corrupt Republicans, but when Nazi Pelosi, on her first day as Speaker, stated that this would be the most honest, moral House she absolutely stepped in deep crap. If the main stream media would actually do some reporting escapades such as those mentioned would be headlines day in and day out. Unfortunately they would rather report on Obama's basketball abilities and his wife's fashion sense.
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