Just wondering if anyone knows if anybody has put a BBC into a pantera? I saw the Hemi conversion.
Just wondering if anyone knows if anybody has put a BBC into a pantera? I saw the Hemi conversion.
Original Post
Just wondering if anyone knows if anybody has put a BBC into a pantera? I saw the Hemi conversion.
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quote:Originally posted by RT66_Pantera:
Just wondering if anyone knows if anybody has put a BBC into a pantera? I saw the Hemi conversion.
I have seen a couple of Panteras that had big block Chevys in them and it is sad say, but they fit better than the Cleveland does. They also make a lot of horsepower and do it without much trouble. I haven't seen the black one from California in quite a few years and there was one in Tucson that ended up in Minn. and I never heard of that one again either.
Reality check:
This is just my personal two cents. I don't mean to rain on your parade, or be mister negative butt. If the BBC swap (or BBF for that matter) had some distinct advantage, it would be more popular.
The current crop of 7 liter small blocks make all the torque & bhp the Pantera chassis, and more importantly, the ZF, can tolerate.
The only reason to go to a big block anything, is to go for more displacement than 7 liters (you're thinking of a crate motor over 500 cubes, right?). Its just a can of worms, you'll start chasing body cracks and drivetrain problems, until you'll sell the car out of frustration. There is one vendor that specializes in BBF crate motor swaps. But anybody who actually tries to use the power in such a motor ends up with problems. Lets be honest, if a car is going to spends its life "cruising" to car shows, an ultra-powerful motor will not damage the drive train. But if you "get on it" with too much torque on board, parts will start breaking.
On the other hand, if you spend equivalent money on an all alloy motor, with your choice of 7 liter windsor, 7 liter cleveland (with the future Buttermore block) or a 6 liter modular V8; and install whatever intake system tickles your fancy, you can have a 550 ft/lb, 500 to 700 bhp powerplant that weighs only 400 pounds. This is still a lot of power, but experience has proven the problems with body cracks and drivetrain failure will be less. All the parts to make the windsor or modular motor swap are readily available.
The BBC swap has been done several times. It will require all custom parts. Nothing off the shelf. And when you decide to sell the car it won't be very popular with the buyers.
I think there may be one or two members here that have the BBF motors, I'm not aware of any with BBC motors. On the other hand, there are several with the Windsor & Cleveland strokers, or the modular V8's. Hopefully they'll all contribute and tell you of their experiences.
cowboy from hell
This is just my personal two cents. I don't mean to rain on your parade, or be mister negative butt. If the BBC swap (or BBF for that matter) had some distinct advantage, it would be more popular.
The current crop of 7 liter small blocks make all the torque & bhp the Pantera chassis, and more importantly, the ZF, can tolerate.
The only reason to go to a big block anything, is to go for more displacement than 7 liters (you're thinking of a crate motor over 500 cubes, right?). Its just a can of worms, you'll start chasing body cracks and drivetrain problems, until you'll sell the car out of frustration. There is one vendor that specializes in BBF crate motor swaps. But anybody who actually tries to use the power in such a motor ends up with problems. Lets be honest, if a car is going to spends its life "cruising" to car shows, an ultra-powerful motor will not damage the drive train. But if you "get on it" with too much torque on board, parts will start breaking.
On the other hand, if you spend equivalent money on an all alloy motor, with your choice of 7 liter windsor, 7 liter cleveland (with the future Buttermore block) or a 6 liter modular V8; and install whatever intake system tickles your fancy, you can have a 550 ft/lb, 500 to 700 bhp powerplant that weighs only 400 pounds. This is still a lot of power, but experience has proven the problems with body cracks and drivetrain failure will be less. All the parts to make the windsor or modular motor swap are readily available.
The BBC swap has been done several times. It will require all custom parts. Nothing off the shelf. And when you decide to sell the car it won't be very popular with the buyers.
I think there may be one or two members here that have the BBF motors, I'm not aware of any with BBC motors. On the other hand, there are several with the Windsor & Cleveland strokers, or the modular V8's. Hopefully they'll all contribute and tell you of their experiences.
cowboy from hell
Thanks for the replies.
I agree with you completely on all aspects.
If I was to change from the cleveland, I too would have to go with the windsor based on component upgrades available for the windsor.
I was just curious - I came across a website that had ZF Bellhousing adaptors and it showed a Chevy to ZF.
I agree with you completely on all aspects.
If I was to change from the cleveland, I too would have to go with the windsor based on component upgrades available for the windsor.
I was just curious - I came across a website that had ZF Bellhousing adaptors and it showed a Chevy to ZF.
When I was looking to buy, I drove Dallas Rain’s Chevy powered Pantera, It was a nice/clean car, even drove nice,,,,, I didn’t buy it because of the Chevy and/or cost of putting a Ford back in it.
Some pics off PI web page
http://www.pim.net/paint421.html
For sale
http://www.pim.net/dall121202.html
Some pics off PI web page
http://www.pim.net/paint421.html
For sale
http://www.pim.net/dall121202.html
quote:Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:
Reality check:
This is just my personal two cents. I don't mean to rain on your parade, or be mister negative butt. If the BBC swap (or BBF for that matter) had some distinct advantage, it would be more popular.
The current crop of 7 liter small blocks make all the torque & bhp the Pantera chassis, and more importantly, the ZF, can tolerate.
The only reason to go to a big block anything, is to go for more displacement than 7 liters (you're thinking of a crate motor over 500 cubes, right?). Its just a can of worms, you'll start chasing body cracks and drivetrain problems, until you'll sell the car out of frustration. There is one vendor that specializes in BBF crate motor swaps. But anybody who actually tries to use the power in such a motor ends up with problems. Lets be honest, if a car is going to spends its life "cruising" to car shows, an ultra-powerful motor will not damage the drive train. But if you "get on it" with too much torque on board, parts will start breaking.
On the other hand, if you spend equivalent money on an all alloy motor, with your choice of 7 liter windsor, 7 liter cleveland (with the future Buttermore block) or a 6 liter modular V8; and install whatever intake system tickles your fancy, you can have a 550 ft/lb, 500 to 700 bhp powerplant that weighs only 400 pounds. This is still a lot of power, but experience has proven the problems with body cracks and drivetrain failure will be less. All the parts to make the windsor or modular motor swap are readily available.
The BBC swap has been done several times. It will require all custom parts. Nothing off the shelf. And when you decide to sell the car it won't be very popular with the buyers.
I think there may be one or two members here that have the BBF motors, I'm not aware of any with BBC motors. On the other hand, there are several with the Windsor & Cleveland strokers, or the modular V8's. Hopefully they'll all contribute and tell you of their experiences.
cowboy from hell
Gee, I just thought the stess cracks are caused by the Pantera's nature to do that in certain areas. Sure, the more power you put out, the more body flex there will be, but the new 17 and 18 inch wheels that we are installing are more than likely putting more stess on the cars than the horsepower and torque that the engines are producing.
quote:Originally posted by JFFR:
...Sure, the more power you put out, the more body flex there will be... .
My point precisely
quote:...the new 17 and 18 inch wheels that we are installing are more than likely putting more stess on the cars than the horsepower and torque that the engines are producing...
No. The greater adhesion provided by the ultra-wide tires subjects the chassis to more of the motor's twisting and folding forces.
cowboy from hell
quote:Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:quote:Originally posted by JFFR:
...Sure, the more power you put out, the more body flex there will be... .
My point preciselyquote:...the new 17 and 18 inch wheels that we are installing are more than likely putting more stess on the cars than the horsepower and torque that the engines are producing...
No. The greater adhesion provided by the ultra-wide tires subjects the chassis to more of the motor's twisting and folding forces.
George, I know the tires are attached to the wheels. Did anyone every think of the fact that most of the Panteras out there are now over 35 years old and many (like mine) have over 100k miles on them.
I was just at a local car show with the Pantera and talked to a guy that was in the body and paint buisness. He also had a worked on a few Panteras through the years and we started talking about the stess crack issue with the cars. His thoughts were leaning more toward the unibody design of the car causing stress cracks. I installed a two post lift in my garage a few years ago and have spent a lot of time standing under my Pantera and installed one of the vendors chassis brace kits on the car. It appears to me that there is not much that ties the mid section of the car to the front frame rails. This problem seems like it can be taken care of with some type of sub frame connector, which I feel would not be that difficult to build. I am still running 15" wheels on my car and do not drive the car hard, except for a few quick runs through the gears in a straight line. I have noticed stress cracks in my paint around the tail lights, and several other places on the body. I don't think the cracking is being caused by horse power or engine torque. If it is the engine power output that has caused some of the problems, then I must have done something right with the CHI 2V head set up on this thing.
cowboy from hell
I can remember back in the very early eighties that there was a Pantera in Hot Rod magazine built to the hilt, was it from Hall Pantera??.. Showing what could be done with one of these cars. It had a 427 SOHC and everything was strenghened. Chrome Moly EVERYTHING. That was what started my love of these cars.
Is this car still around??
Jeff
Is this car still around??
Jeff
We have a big block Chevy and a big block Ford here in Dallas. I guess some guys just need to be different?