earliy cat

Jay,

The side marker lights (all 4) should be metal. They do not use a gasket where they contact the car's body.

The front deck lid release should be a metal handle.

There will be more surprises.

PM sent.

John

Thanks John
I will probably give you a call this week

No problem. I'm on Pacific time.

John

Another early question.
I know the pilot bushing is different, trying to source one now.
What about the throw out bearing, is it also different on a dash 1, than a dash 2?
Thanks in advance

quote:

What about the throw out bearing, is it also different on a dash 1, than a dash 2?

It's the same.

John

John, if he has the dash-1.5 ZF with the sand-cast two-hole bellhousing, doesn't that combo use the Mangusta type pilot bearing extension piece?

quote:

John, if he has the dash-1.5 ZF with the sand-cast two-hole bellhousing, doesn't that combo use the Mangusta type pilot bearing extension piece?

Jack,

Yes, it does use the extension for the pilot bearing and a different pilot bearing, but the throwout bearing is the same.

John

Okay, now I am worried.
I have everybody looking for a dash 1 pilot bearing/bushing and I did not even know there was a dash 1.5
Here is a pic of the bell housing that I have, can you tell which pilot bearing I will be needing?
And who might have one?

another pic

Jay,

Dash 1 and dash 1.5 use the same pilot bearing.

Dash 1.5 (coined by Lloyd Butfoy, IIRC) is basically an "inverted" dash 1.

John

You probably have this info, but just in case you don't...

The pilot bearing is a Durkopp # DHK 1512, which crosses over to a SKF #HK 1512.

There aren't any marking on the seal.

John

The pieces (L to R):

Crankshaft adapter, pilot bearing, and seal.

John

Is your front chin spoiler more narrow?

This looks to be the same transmission as Detonator has in his '71?

'71 Back to Life!

These babies are popping up all over!

Rocky

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
Is your front chin spoiler more narrow?

??????
On the orange car? Standard GT-5 kit, Wide angle lens

Q-kitty, a 5DS-25/1 ZF is used in a Mangusta. A 5DS-25/2 is used in a Pantera. Your transition assembly is colloquially called a 'dash 1.5' being a bit of both. Lloyd Butfoy of RBT Transmissions coined the unofficial name to help clarify things when one buys ZF parts, since he sells parts for GT-40s (dash-zero), Mangustas (dash-1) and Panteras (dash-2), and all have some unique pieces with a number of interchangeable bits.

The actual name- that no one uses- for your ZF is '5DS-25-Intermediate-Production-Version-B', or -D' depending on what purchase order Ford actually used for it in 1970 and the exact bits inside. The final version transaxle used in most Panteras is '5DS-25/2 version E' (also of which no one uses).

Thanks Rocky

In the link you provide, Looks like Bosswrench is saying that a different clutch package is needed. As I bought this car as a project and apart. I am wondering if the centerforce clutch package that came with the car is correct. It is not new and has obviously been used, will have to see if it fits the splines and keep my fingers crossed.
Looks like I will be needing the pilot bearing and adaptor.
Might be better off just having one machined?

quote:

Originally posted by jb1490:
The pieces (L to R):

Crankshaft adapter, pilot bearing, and seal.

John

Thanks, John. I built one almost like it for a Mangusta guy, but made the steel extension with threads inside so it could be removed from the crank without a puller, and so the bearing & seal could also be removed without damage. But I never saw the early-Pantera version.

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:

quote:

Originally posted by jb1490:
The pieces (L to R):

Crankshaft adapter, pilot bearing, and seal.

John

Thanks, John. I built one almost like it for a Mangusta guy, but made the steel extension with threads inside so it could be removed from the crank without a puller, and so the bearing & seal could also be removed without damage. But I never saw the early-Pantera version.

jb1940
I second the thanks for that pic. It helps so much to have such an awesome group of people willing to share their wealth of knowledge
Thank you!!

The '71 Pushbutton I worked on has this ZF dash 1.5. When we changed the clutch I recall it didn't have the crankshaft adapter, which I remember from helping Dennis change out the clutch on the Mangusta he used to own. Is the input shaft shorter on the -1.5 that it needs this adapter? I have since done test drives on the Pushbutton and now wonder if I should hold off additional road tests until we revisit the zf.

I found a picture of the input shaft when we pulled the zf. It shows clearly where the input shaft rides on the pilot bearing.

quote:

Originally posted by Quickitty:

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
Is your front chin spoiler more narrow?

??????
On the orange car? Standard GT-5 kit, Wide angle lens

I thought you were talking about differences on the earlier Pantera's. On my #1280 (photo1) the chin spoiler is much more narrow then 1905 (photo2). Look how the chin hugs the grill in the first photo:

quote:

The '71 Pushbutton I worked on has this ZF dash 1.5. When we changed the clutch I recall it didn't have the crankshaft adapter, which I remember from helping Dennis change out the clutch on the Mangusta he used to own. Is the input shaft shorter on the -1.5 that it needs this adapter? I have since done test drives on the Pushbutton and now wonder if I should hold off additional road tests until we revisit the zf.

Bayani,

Yes, the input shaft is shorter on the dash 1.5 (shorter than the dash 2).

Here's another possible "surprise". According to Lloyd Butfoy, all of the guts from a dash 2 can be installed into a dash 1.5 case. While I never asked Lloyd specifically about the input shaft, I suspect that it would also be part of the swap. That swap would give you a longer input shaft, which would not require the pilot bearing adapter.

Remember that the dash 2 and the dash 1.5 also have different input shaft spline diameters.

Dash 1.5: 1-1/8" x 10 splines
Dash 2: 1-1/16" x 10 splines

Which clutch disc did you purchase? 1-1/8" or 1-1/16"?

Did you test fit the clutch disc on the input shaft before installation?

John

Thanks John.

The owner of the car bought the clutch assembly from one of the Pantera vendors. The kit is a McLeod unit and includes an adjustable throw out bearing. We did test fit the clutch and saw no fitment issues plus no issues noted on the test drive.

Comp2
Yes, of course, sorry I was not thinking about the lower valance. Strangely enough, mine seems to be like the newer (72-74) style. I have it apart and do not see signs of it being replaced. Maybe just at that point where they were changing the design.

A Very well done to P.I. Motorsports!!!
Seems they had the idea of having a few of the extended pilot bushings machined. I have one on order and a new throw out bearing.

Another oddity about the early cat is the back window. It looks to have been made in 3 separate sections. First I have seen that on a pantera.

quote:

Another oddity about the early cat is the back window. It looks to have been made in 3 separate sections.

Can you clarify "3 separate sections"?

John

The rear glass has 2 verticle tape lines at about the head rest areas. behind the tape is what seems (for a lack of better words) a seam in the glass. I have never seen this before but then again, this pantera has given me a few surprises.....as you said it might.
Yes, that is my door tag taped to the rear glass so I don't loose it

There was a factory color that looked like a metallic Aqua/blue/green. Anybody have a pic or color code? I think that was a color only offered on the early cars, might be a good choice

Here is another "Fun One" for you.
Although not factory....I hope, another surprise.
When restoring cars it is not uncommon to come across a lot of "make shift" solutions to basic problems. I was "BLESSED" to find several on this car, and not surprisingly most in the wiring.
This was one of my favorites.
In the picture is the cover that goes over the radiator. Attached to it (under it and in front of the radiator)is a round Mercedes emblem that is hinged. The idea was that when the car was going forward, the wind pressure would cause the emblem to rock back on the hinge and then apply pressure to 2 micro switches that would then open the circuit to the radiator fan and thus shutting it off while the car was on the highway.
Yep they live amoung us

(Did it / Does it still) work?

You gotta admit - it's an interesting approach!

Rocky

Does this look like something stock for a Mercedes? Simple and effective if its reliable.