Electric fuel pump?

My holley e-pump is mounted below and beside the tank. Below the oil filter there is space between the frame.

quote:

Originally posted by mikee:
My holley e-pump is mounted below and beside the tank. Below the oil filter there is space between the frame.

Did you have to replace the brass Holley 180 fittings with a a 90 degree fitting? If I place it on the frame, looks like the fuel hose will pinch as I curve it into the Holley fittings. ??

...See my picture on the thread at this sight; 'Holley fuel pump Install'. In THIS Column. Notice I have mounted the Pressure regulater directly to the output of the pump, this way, only low pressure is traveling through the longest hose. This does NOT 'hurt' the pump as there is a bypass built into it. DO NOT run these pumps (BLUE) With-Out a regulator as they produce 14-15 pounds of pressure and the Holley 'Float Needle Seats' can only control 6-7 Pounds Maximum...

Thanks for the tip Marlin. I bought a regulator but wasn't sure what setting I should use!! THANKS!!

JK......I've got mine below the tank, under the oil filter area, in that triangular shaped section of frame.

BTW.......I'm using the HolleyRed pump which does NOT require a regulator, as its held to 7-7.5lbs. (and also checks on my carb mounted pressure gauge).......... WORKS EXCELLENT!

Great info guys!! Man, this board ROCKS!!

thanks.

Josh

p.s. kaama - I bought a black Holley a few years ago that I've been traveling with (just in case).. I forget the PSI rating but it's the strongest one Holley sells..so I'm pretty sure I need the regulator Marlin mentioned. Thanks.

A note for those considering an electric fuel pump because they can't hunt down a mechanical pump with enough pumping capacity, there is a 120 gph mechanical pump on the market for $62. That's 50% more capacity than the Holley mechanical race pump, and equivalent to most electric pumps.

http://allstarperformance.carshopinc.com/product_info.p...oducts_id/4552/40263

This is my recommendation for safety's sake. The mechanical pumps are also quieter and easier to install, no re-engineering involved.

just more info for you, so you can make an informed decision.

Your friend on the PIBB, George

What is the oil pressure of a cranking Cleveland?

If it's too low, you can't wire the fuel pump for an oil pressure cut-off switch. The motor wouldn't start!

George,

I see your no longer an 'Old' Pro. How good does that feel?

Michael

Mr Gasket makes a safty switch #7872. I mounted it in the unused fitting by the oil filter. Holly makes a switch too, but it's larger in diameter and may not fit. I mounted my pump low in that same triangle box area, but I made a bracket for it. I brazed some nuts onto heavy gauge steel then riveted the plate to the box section. I also soldered ALL connections, don't trust crimp or push on spade connectors. They will corrode and leave you stranded.

So with the electric pump off of the bottom of the tank, are we installing a cartridge filter before the pump ? Because the fuel there giving us could have debris in it. The pump is made to push not pull so will this restrict the flow to the pump if the cartidge is too small.

I have thought of trying to install a new Mustand submersible pump in the tank. Any ideas on that ??

Ron

Hey guys!

The safest way to run a fuel pump is mechanically. With the existance of a 120 gph mechanical pump, I don't know why anyone would go through the trouble & noise of an electrical pump. That's last time I'll bring it up, but I do feel strongly about it.

I have found the Holley oil pressure switch they sell for shutting down the elec fuel pump to be a P-I-T-A. Of course, that was almost 20 years ago. It was a source of fuel system gremlins. I hope the Mr Gasket switch is better.

If you are plumbing a fuel pump to draw from the bottom of the fuel tank for the first time, I would run a fuel filter between the tank & pump for the first tank of fuel, then remove that filter and install a new filter on the discharge of the pump, where it belongs. A fuel pump will pass small debris without problem, it's the large stuff that's been sitting in the bottom of the tank for 30 years you want to keep out of the pump; low flying birds, Jimmy Hoffa, dead mackerel, the Loch Ness monster, that sort of stuff.

FI system fuel pumps put out too much pressure for a carbureted system, I've never payed attention to what the maximum inlet pressure of a Holley fuel regulator is, but I'll bet it's not anywhere near the 45+ psi of a FI system fuel pump. The 2 types of systems just don't mix.

Yes Michael, it is wonderful to no longer have the word "OLD" associated with my "karma" level! LOL! Now I'm a sus-tain-ing-pro, just like you!

Mom would be proud!

Your sustaining friend on the PIBB, George

Cranking oil pressure isn't an issue. The safety switch has a lug that connects to the starter solenoid so the pump always runs with the key in the "start" position.
I used the stock fuel pickup tube. With the pump mounted low there is a siphon effect making sure the pump is "primed". As long as you don't run out of gas there shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks for the explaination racerdave. I wasn't exactly sure how that would work.

Michael

Early prototype set-up.

John3613,

Handsome setup. Will it be visible once the tire is on, or will it be behind a splash shield?

Michael

Thanks Michael,
This is my intial mockup, on the finished version the heat shield is modified and an easily removable cover allows the filter element change, yet covers the fuel system completely. The cover can be removed with the tire in place for inspection.
I have sent an article to Dave Adler complete with pictures for the next PI magazine. I could post more pictures but I know Dave prefers some exclusivity, so this post will be the "tease"

Gives us something to look forward to in the next issue!

Michael

Fuel pumps are very poor at suction of fuel. El pumps are more problemitic at this then mechanical units. As in past posts Jack, mentions that trying to suck the fuel up the stock pickup leads to pump failures down the road. Some of the posted pictures solved the problem by mounting the pump up high. Another option is to tap into the drain plug on the bottom of the tank. I was able to go to a local fitting house and find the right threads on a 90 into an AN fitting. The part was from parker valve.

Noise is an issue. Try to isolate the pump via rubber isolators.

Roverltd,

what threads were those on the bottom of the fuel tank?

By the way, your install job, tubing work is very good.

your curious friend on the PIBB, George

(sans bike)

I will even make it easier for you. The Parker part number is 10M22C80MXS. The thds are M22 into a -10AN line. Hard to see but the red thing is a shut off valve so I can cut the fuel when changing the pre-filter before the pump.

The real stressful part is trying to break free that plug. Since the sheetmetal is thin, you need to take care. Load it up with penetrating oil and hit it with a impact wrench on a low setting. Keep hitting until it starts to turn.

Thanks!

Have a look at the mechanical pumps on this website:

http://www.robbmcperformance.com

There is a choice of 110 and 220 gph versions. Both are six valve. Measured under pressure (say 4 or 5 psi) the six valve 110 gph pump will outflow the 120 gph two valve mechanical pump.

Here's my experience of an electric fuel pump.
My Pantera already had a Holley red fitted when I bought the car 12 years ago (with no pressure regulator) and is one of the very few things I haven't replaced. It's hard to replace something that is working fine.
I totally agree with George in that a mechanical pump is simple, quite, and less likely to fail. However, if your Pantera has the habit of evaporating the fuel from it's float bowls like mine does (I don't run a valley pan) you have to crank your engine over until they are full before it will start.
This is not cool when your have a small audience waiting to hear you drive off!

I like the idea of the electric pump filling the fuel bowls first and then having the engine fire straight away. I decided to mount the pump as far away from my ear as I could. So I mounted it with rubber mounts (the type that have a round piece of rubber with a screw thread coming out of each end) on the chassis leg above where an American car would mount it's rear bumper shock absorber inside the rear wheel house. I then ran the fuel lines on top of the chassis leg back to the tank. It works fine, but I can still hear it from the drivers seat. I like loud Pantera's. My car has GR3 exhausts so it's loud at 112 DB, but when I am on a long journey, I like to close the windows and have all the sound go out the back. The sound of the pump is unwanted sound.
The safety switch is a great idea. I will have to look into that.

Johnny

Hi Johnny,

In my mind the absolutely most beneficial aspect of a mechanical fuel pump is the fact that when the motor stops turning, the pump stops pumping.

The existance of 110 & 220 gph mechanical fuel pumps for the 351C really makes the hassle of living with an electric pump rather like masochism.

Robb, thanks for building a 351C fuel pump, filling in a hole left by the demise of Carter's Cleveland NASCAR pump. Your pump "looks" very similar to the Carter pumps, rebuildable, etc. You may want to introduce yourself to the members of this bulletin board, much like you did over on the Cleveland forum a few months back.

your friend on the DTBB, George

quote:

Originally posted by george pence:
The existance of 110 & 220 gph mechanical fuel pumps for the 351C really makes the hassle of living with an electric pump rather like masochism.

Robb, thanks for building a 351C fuel pump, filling in a hole left by the demise of Carter's Cleveland NASCAR pump. Your pump "looks" very similar to the Carter pumps, rebuildable, etc. You may want to introduce yourself to the members of this bulletin board, much like you did over on the Cleveland forum a few months back.

your friend on the DTBB, George

Thanks George. I am new to this forum but I am a regular on many other forums (Olds, Buick, Pontiac, Mopar, FE, Cleveland etc) as one of my jobs as a Mallory engineer was to answer questions on the forums. I decided to join this forum when we sold our first 220 Cleveland pump to a Pantera owner who gave me the website address for this forum.

Here is some information from our website about myself and my business partner:

RobbMc Performance is the result of the combined efforts of two engineers: Robb, a mechanical engineer, and Craig, an electrical engineer. Both of these car geeks worked for more than a decade at Mallory Ignition designing ignition and fuel system products. Robb also worked for Erson cams for over a decade and for Tilton Engineering (mini-starters, clutches etc) for more than six years. Before working at Mallory Ignition, Craig worked for a major aerospace company.

Both of these guys are true gear heads. Between the two of them they have owned, modified and raced: air cooled VW's, 2.3L Fords, Sports 2000 cars, rotary RX7 Mazdas, Fiat X19's, as well as AMC, Chevy SB/BB, Ford SB/FE, Mopar SB, Buick, Olds and Pontiac V8's (and that doesn't even include the go carts, bar stools and cub scout cars).

The goal of this company is to design, manufacture and sell unique and innovative products for racing and street performance, with a focus on the less popular engines. Everyone likes a Chevy small block. But for Robb and Craig, it's more interesting to make products for engines that aren't so common.

Do you have an engine that is somewhat ignored by the aftermarket? Can't find a particular product for your engine? Contact RobbMc Performance Products and tell them about it. Something like a high volume fuel pump for a Studebaker V8 might just be different enough to generate some interest. They're different that way.