Michael,
Don't get carried away with replacing parts just yet. While the parts that you mentioned may be "worn", that is not the source of the problem.
The two simplest things that you should do first are: 1) jumper the MSD input power, and 2)try a replacement coil.
John
John,
I'm going to try a replacement coil tomorrow. While I'm there, I'll jump the MSD. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to order the tune-up parts because I need them anyway.
Michael
I'm going to try a replacement coil tomorrow. While I'm there, I'll jump the MSD. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to order the tune-up parts because I need them anyway.
Michael
I was finally able to get back to this today and here's what I found:
I was going to do John's MSD jumper test when I noticed one of the wires for the ballast resistor was hanging off and just barely making contact. I pushed it back on and it was very easy to slide back off, but I tried to start the engine anyway and it fired right up! I turned it off and on several times and let it idle a bit. Before the engine got too hot, I slid the loose connector back off (it was a crimped on female), and used a pliers to sqeeze the prongs down a little tighter. It was nice and tight going back on, but I noticed the blade coming from the resistor was wobbly.
I tried to start the engine again and it just cranked. I took a plug wire off and had no spark. I removed the connector again and slid it back on, but not as deep. The engine started back up and idled just fine. I wobbled the blade with the connector on it while the engine was running and it did not cut out, or even stumble.
I took it for a test drive, and the car hesitated a few times, like it wanted to shut off, but caught itself. After about 15 minutes, I shut the engine off, and it would not restart, it just cranked. After a while it started and shut off, then started and ran. I headed for home, but had to stop for gas. The engine started right back up, but cut out before I got to the street. This last time it started, and stayed running all the way home, but stumbled many times.
Am I right in guessing that the wobbly ballast resistor blade is giving me inconsistent contact internally? I don't see what else it could be, as the loose resistor connection solved my 'no start' problem.
It looks like an MSD type of resistor (.8 ohms). I have an MSD 6AL, with a stock coil, and a Mallory Unilite pickup in the Motorcraft vacuum advance distributor. Should I be using the Mallory type of ballast resistor (.75 - 1.5 ohms), or does it not matter?
Michael
I was going to do John's MSD jumper test when I noticed one of the wires for the ballast resistor was hanging off and just barely making contact. I pushed it back on and it was very easy to slide back off, but I tried to start the engine anyway and it fired right up! I turned it off and on several times and let it idle a bit. Before the engine got too hot, I slid the loose connector back off (it was a crimped on female), and used a pliers to sqeeze the prongs down a little tighter. It was nice and tight going back on, but I noticed the blade coming from the resistor was wobbly.
I tried to start the engine again and it just cranked. I took a plug wire off and had no spark. I removed the connector again and slid it back on, but not as deep. The engine started back up and idled just fine. I wobbled the blade with the connector on it while the engine was running and it did not cut out, or even stumble.
I took it for a test drive, and the car hesitated a few times, like it wanted to shut off, but caught itself. After about 15 minutes, I shut the engine off, and it would not restart, it just cranked. After a while it started and shut off, then started and ran. I headed for home, but had to stop for gas. The engine started right back up, but cut out before I got to the street. This last time it started, and stayed running all the way home, but stumbled many times.
Am I right in guessing that the wobbly ballast resistor blade is giving me inconsistent contact internally? I don't see what else it could be, as the loose resistor connection solved my 'no start' problem.
It looks like an MSD type of resistor (.8 ohms). I have an MSD 6AL, with a stock coil, and a Mallory Unilite pickup in the Motorcraft vacuum advance distributor. Should I be using the Mallory type of ballast resistor (.75 - 1.5 ohms), or does it not matter?
Michael
This situation has gone from bad to worse.
It turns out I don't need a ballast resistor with an MSD box, so I bypassed it by connecting the two wires together. That seemed to work for a short while. It barely stumbled once or twice on an hour long ride, but when I turned around to come home, it really started bucking and lurching (from constantly wanting to cut out). I didn't think I was going to make it home, but I did.
I got back to it today to attack some of the excess wiring in my engine bay. Whoever was in there previously seems to have not known the slightest thing about wiring, or maybe just didn't care. There are about 4 or 5 wires on each of the coil's terminals when there's only supposed to be one on each. Some of these wires are even cut somewhere down their length. Wires are butt spliced here and there for the electric fuel pump, the choke, the tach adapter, etc. It's a horrible mess.
I removed the cut wires that went nowhere and isolated some of the others. So now I turn the key, and the exact opposite of what was happening is happening. At first, The engine would crank a little and try to start, but when I released the key it would cut right out. Now it cranks endlessly and when I release the key it starts and runs! I let it warm up, and shut it off just to restart it. Normally, flick the key and it will kick right on. Again, it cranked endlessly and when I released the key, it started. I did this several times with the same results.
I took it for a test drive and barely made it to the corner. Now not only is it wanting to cut out, but it's also spitting and popping and backfiring like it is now out of time! WTF ?!? I tried for the next corner, but it wasn't happening by a long shot. I turned around and put it back in the garage.
Kingston is next weekend and I'm at a loss. How could the engine all of a sudden be backfiring? I didn't change anything except removing cut wires. I even put those back just because it was the only thing I did differently, but no change. I can see an electrical issue causing the engine to cut out cleanly, or go on and off. I can't see an electrical issue causing the engine to pop and backfire (badly) all of a sudden.
Any thoughts? (Tomorrow is just about my last day to conquer this before I miss Kingston.)
Michael
It turns out I don't need a ballast resistor with an MSD box, so I bypassed it by connecting the two wires together. That seemed to work for a short while. It barely stumbled once or twice on an hour long ride, but when I turned around to come home, it really started bucking and lurching (from constantly wanting to cut out). I didn't think I was going to make it home, but I did.
I got back to it today to attack some of the excess wiring in my engine bay. Whoever was in there previously seems to have not known the slightest thing about wiring, or maybe just didn't care. There are about 4 or 5 wires on each of the coil's terminals when there's only supposed to be one on each. Some of these wires are even cut somewhere down their length. Wires are butt spliced here and there for the electric fuel pump, the choke, the tach adapter, etc. It's a horrible mess.
I removed the cut wires that went nowhere and isolated some of the others. So now I turn the key, and the exact opposite of what was happening is happening. At first, The engine would crank a little and try to start, but when I released the key it would cut right out. Now it cranks endlessly and when I release the key it starts and runs! I let it warm up, and shut it off just to restart it. Normally, flick the key and it will kick right on. Again, it cranked endlessly and when I released the key, it started. I did this several times with the same results.
I took it for a test drive and barely made it to the corner. Now not only is it wanting to cut out, but it's also spitting and popping and backfiring like it is now out of time! WTF ?!? I tried for the next corner, but it wasn't happening by a long shot. I turned around and put it back in the garage.
Kingston is next weekend and I'm at a loss. How could the engine all of a sudden be backfiring? I didn't change anything except removing cut wires. I even put those back just because it was the only thing I did differently, but no change. I can see an electrical issue causing the engine to cut out cleanly, or go on and off. I can't see an electrical issue causing the engine to pop and backfire (badly) all of a sudden.
Any thoughts? (Tomorrow is just about my last day to conquer this before I miss Kingston.)
Michael
Michael,
Try the jumper directly to the MSD box. There really should be a relay feeding the MSD. It also sounds like there may be a problem with the ignition switch, but try the jumper first.
John
Try the jumper directly to the MSD box. There really should be a relay feeding the MSD. It also sounds like there may be a problem with the ignition switch, but try the jumper first.
John
John,
I'll try that. I haven't yet because the ballast resistor exposed itself and that seemed to fix it. Besides jumping the MSD box, do you think a bad MSD box could cause what's happening?
Michael
I'll try that. I haven't yet because the ballast resistor exposed itself and that seemed to fix it. Besides jumping the MSD box, do you think a bad MSD box could cause what's happening?
Michael
Are you using the Ford horseshoe connector to your coil? I had a similar situation with my car that was driving me crazy. I bought a spare MSD Blaster 2F and swapped it and my problem went away for a while. I was driving back home and my car died at the stop light and was hard to restart. I was able to make it home and found the positive lug on the horseshoe connector was black and the plastic was melted around it. The connector was loose and was arcing on the gap.
Good luck in your troubleshooting.
Good luck in your troubleshooting.
I once had issues a little like you have. Could run well for a few miles, then start to spit and backfire and lose power. Next day, while testing with another component, it would run fine, and then the next day with nothing changed, the problem would reoccur. For me it was something simple, the vacuum advance could get stuck. When I disconnected and plugged the vacuum hose, the problem was gone. A new vacuum advance (adjustable) solved it.
Michael,
Yes, it certainly is possible. Try another one.
You might check your ignition timing to make sure that the timing chain hasn't jumped.
PM sent.
John
quote:do you think a bad MSD box could cause what's happening?
Yes, it certainly is possible. Try another one.
You might check your ignition timing to make sure that the timing chain hasn't jumped.
PM sent.
John
I had a simular problem happen to me last night. The car started as usual and ran strong for20 mins. Stopped at a local store for maybe 3 mins and went to start her up and she back fired and stumbled for a couple of mins. before clearing herself out. Ran great for another half hour at highway speeds and local traffic speed. Picked up my son from soccer practice and stopped for gas. (go figure) Then it did the same thnig..back firing and stumbling. But this time she would not start. I had my son crank her over while I was in the back looking for a reason. While he was cranking her over I could hear sparking and noticed a lot of oil steam blowing by the breathers. We pushed her to the side of the parking lot. (Gas pumps and sparking don't mix) I inspected all the plg wires which looked fairly new when I bought the car two years ago. Then the coil wire, and found thet the connector on top of the dist. had come apart! Pulled the wire out and found it to be very old and full of corrosion. Probably the original wire! Called the wife and she went and bought a wire kit and I fit the new cable by means of my truck's headlights and she started on the first crank! Drove her the half hour home at high highway speeds with no problems. I actually feel a big difference in the power off the line, much stronger pull. I'm guessing that wire has been like that since day one and just hanging on by a thread.
With that said, a closer inspection of your wires couldn't hurt at all.
George
By the way, I'm one of the lucky ones that this was the first time with my car that I had to almost call for a tow.
With that said, a closer inspection of your wires couldn't hurt at all.
George
By the way, I'm one of the lucky ones that this was the first time with my car that I had to almost call for a tow.
Michael,
Your "endless crank" then start when you release the key, is indicative of no "crank voltage" to your MSD box. Could be a starter relay sort of thing.
Fords (and others perhaps) supply 12V to the coil when "cranking", then once the engine fires, the operator lets off on the key and it returns to the "run" position, and the ignition system now provides a reduced voltage amount (6-9V) to the coil for normal operation (via a resistor wire from the ignition switch to the coil, or an external resistor of sorts). With the aftermarket setup, I suspect it operates in a similar manner, but you perhaps inadvertently removed one too many wires!
You are correct in removing the fuel pump wiring, electric choke, the subwoofer wiring, alarm, fog lamps from the coil hot lead.....!
If you have a Mangusta, it's 12V cranking and 12V run.....but you must have a coil that is made to operate that way....some old Chevys were like that.
You may want to check the coil to see if it is now getting 12V at cranking....
The fact that it is running at all says your coil and plug wires are "OK". Misfiring under load is something that could be attributable to a bad coil wire or one or two spark plug wires....check for header burns!
I suspect your butchered wiring to be the problem. I've heard this symptom before on other members cars, and I think even my car too, when I first got it....crank like the dickens, and as soon as you let off the switch, VROOM! Now, I barely turn the engine over one turn and it is running.
I'm an advocate of Ford Duraspark II systems....simple, easy to troubleshoot, and you can steal parts off of almost any Ford product made from the 70's to early 90's to get you down the road!!! A little harder to get aftermarket parts out in the weeds....
Keep on with it, you'll nail it!
Steve
Your "endless crank" then start when you release the key, is indicative of no "crank voltage" to your MSD box. Could be a starter relay sort of thing.
Fords (and others perhaps) supply 12V to the coil when "cranking", then once the engine fires, the operator lets off on the key and it returns to the "run" position, and the ignition system now provides a reduced voltage amount (6-9V) to the coil for normal operation (via a resistor wire from the ignition switch to the coil, or an external resistor of sorts). With the aftermarket setup, I suspect it operates in a similar manner, but you perhaps inadvertently removed one too many wires!
You are correct in removing the fuel pump wiring, electric choke, the subwoofer wiring, alarm, fog lamps from the coil hot lead.....!
If you have a Mangusta, it's 12V cranking and 12V run.....but you must have a coil that is made to operate that way....some old Chevys were like that.
You may want to check the coil to see if it is now getting 12V at cranking....
The fact that it is running at all says your coil and plug wires are "OK". Misfiring under load is something that could be attributable to a bad coil wire or one or two spark plug wires....check for header burns!
I suspect your butchered wiring to be the problem. I've heard this symptom before on other members cars, and I think even my car too, when I first got it....crank like the dickens, and as soon as you let off the switch, VROOM! Now, I barely turn the engine over one turn and it is running.
I'm an advocate of Ford Duraspark II systems....simple, easy to troubleshoot, and you can steal parts off of almost any Ford product made from the 70's to early 90's to get you down the road!!! A little harder to get aftermarket parts out in the weeds....
Keep on with it, you'll nail it!
Steve