Hello Fellow Enthusiasts; Thought this was a Good Read & might possibly help others.

What I now would consider as beneficial to breaking/running in a NEW engine with the oil with the HIGHEST ZDDP content.

Then drain that "Break In Oil" & change to a different oil, still containing proper levels of ZDDP, but now using an oil with a HIGHER PSI rating for wear.

As always comments & varying opinions encouraged!!!...Mark

Most technically inclined gearheads understand the value of real world, motor oil “load carrying capacity/film strength” testing. The results show us how various oils compare when it comes to wear protection. And we can use that information to make an informed decision as to which oil we want to select for our engines.

Though, there are some folks who are extremely set in their beliefs about what they’ve always been told and read, regarding high zinc oils providing excellent wear protection. But, the truth is, like all things in life, motor oils are NOT all created equal. And some oils are simply better than others, no matter what their zinc levels are. Anyone would have to be delusional to think otherwise. And “Wear Testing”, RATHER THAN ZINC LEVELS ALONE, can show us how various oils stack up against each other regarding wear protection capability, as you will see in the real world test data below.

Some folks, who REALLY believe the notion that more zinc in their oil will provide more wear protection, often throw a tizzy fit and get very nasty when test data shows a low zinc oil providing better wear protection than a high zinc oil. But, the fact is, behavior like that will NOT change the facts regarding what oils provide excellent wear protection and what oils do not. However, to keep everyone’s blood pressure down this time, we’ll look at ONLY HIGH ZINC OILS here. That way, all the oils are on an even playing field. However, true zinc lovers will no doubt be disappointed, because not all high zinc oils tested well, even though they all have plenty of zinc.

And keep in mind for comparison with the oils below, that earlier oil industry testing has found that above 1,400 ppm, ZDDP INCREASED long term wear, even though break-in wear was reduced. And it was also found that ZDDP above 2,000 ppm, started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling. So, no matter what zinc fans might “believe”, there is such a thing as "too much of a good thing".

The following group of 40 oils have zinc levels above 1100 ppm, and are ranked according to their “load carrying capacity/film strength”, or in other words, their “wear protection capability”, at 230*F. The tests were repeated multiple times for each oil, and even though all the results for each oil were consistent within a few percent, those results were averaged to arrive at the most accurate and representative final psi numbers shown below. And every single oil was tested EXACTLY THE SAME, so they all had the same opportunity to perform as well as their chemical formulation would allow.

But, before we get into the ranking list of those 40 oils, let’s take a closer look at one of those oils in particular. The oil is:

10W40 Summit Racing Premium Racing Oil, API SL conventional
The bottle makes some bold claims, such as:

* Double the zinc for superior flat tappet cam protection.

* The additive package contains 1800 ppm ZDDP, providing levels of protection unattainable from conventional motor oil. Provides excellent protection from metal to metal contact.

Problem is, this oil fell FAR SHORT of living up to that inflated boasting. These claims were obviously created by the Marketing Department with no regard for what this oil can actually do. This oil ranked a pathetic 85th out of the 94 new oils I’ve tested so far. And it ranked only 34th out of the 40 oils examined here. Once again, here is an oil with high levels of zinc that DID NOT help it perform very well, even among other high zinc oils. Buyer beware. Motor oils are among the worst products for false advertising.

Now let’s consider the claim on its bottle of 1800ppm ZDDP. Since Oil Companies typically don’t publish the ZDDP values of their oil, I sent this oil to Professional Lab, ALS Tribology in Sparks, Nevada, to see just what is really in it, and to see how that claim of 1800ppm ZDDP compares to reality. Here are the results that came back:

zinc = 1764 ppm
phos = 1974 ppm

NOTE: Most of the time, an oil’s zinc level is higher than its phos level, but the phos level here is greater than the zinc level. That is NOT a typo. That is how this oil’s results came back from the Lab. I’ve seen phos levels higher than zinc levels in approximately 40% of all the oils I’ve sent in for component level Lab Testing. So, it varies and just depends on a particular oil’s formulation. And the values listed below are all just the way they came back from the Lab.

If you average the zinc and phos values of this Summit Racing Oil, you come up with 1869 ppm. And that value is of course more than the 1800 ppm ZDDP claimed, so it appears they’ve averaged the values and then rounded down to the nearest 100 ppm, to be on the conservative side.
And since the ZDDP values are not usually available for most oils, we’ll calculate the ZDDP values for all the oils below, in the same manner as this oil, which should get us very close, if not right on target. But, for quick and dirty mental calculations, you can just figure the ZDDP value as approximately half way between the zinc and phos levels.

Here’s the ranking list:

Wear protection reference categories are:

*** Over 90,000 psi = OUTSTANDING protection

*** 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD protection

*** 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST protection

*** Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIREABLE
The higher the psi number, the better the wear protection.

1. 10W30 Lucas Racing Only synthetic = 106,505 psi
zinc = 2642 ppm
phos = 3489 ppm
ZDDP= 3000 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

2. 10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi
zinc = 1669 ppm
phos = 1518 ppm
ZDDP = 1500 ppm
NOTE: Due to its very low TBN value, this oil is only suitable for short term racing use, and is not suitable for street use.

3. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phos = 1544 ppm
ZDDP = 1500 ppm

4. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
zinc = 1180 ppm
phos = 1112 ppm
ZDDP = 1100 ppm

5. 30 wt Red Line Race Oil synthetic = 96,470 psi
zinc = 2207 ppm
phos = 2052 ppm
ZDDP = 2100 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

6. 10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil synthetic = 95,360 psi
zinc = 1431 ppm
phos = 1441 ppm
ZDDP = 1400 ppm

7. 10W30 Quaker State Defy, API SL semi-synthetic = 90,226 psi
zinc = 1221 ppm
phos = 955 ppm
ZDDP = 1000 ppm

8. 10W30 Joe Gibbs HR4 Hotrod Oil synthetic = 86,270 psi
zinc = 1247 ppm
phos = 1137 ppm
ZDDP = 1100 ppm

9. 15W40 RED LINE Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4/CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CF/CH-4/CF-4/SM/SL/SH/EO-O = 85,663 psi
zinc = 1615 ppm
phos = 1551 ppm
ZDDP = 1500 ppm

10. 5W30 Lucas API SM synthetic = 76,584 psi
zinc = 1134 ppm
phos = 666 ppm
ZDDP = 900 ppm

11. 5W50 Castrol Edge with Syntec API SN, synthetic, formerly Castrol Syntec, black bottle = 75,409 psi
zinc = 1252 ppm
phos = 1197 ppm
ZDDP = 1200 ppm

12. 5W30 Royal Purple XPR (Extreme Performance Racing) synthetic = 74,860 psi
zinc = 1421 ppm
phos = 1338 ppm
ZDDP = 1300 ppm

13. 5W40 MOBIL 1 TURBO DIESEL TRUCK synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4 and ACEA E7 = 74,312 psi
zinc = 1211 ppm
phos = 1168 ppm
ZDDP = 1100 ppm

14. 15W40 CHEVRON DELO 400LE Diesel Oil, conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CF-4,CF/SM, = 73,520 psi
zinc = 1519 ppm
phos = 1139 ppm
ZDDP = 1300 ppm

15. 15W40 MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL = 73,300 psi
zinc = 1297 ppm
phos = 1944 ppm
ZDDP = 1600 ppm

16. 15W40 Farm Rated Heavy Duty Performance Diesel, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL, SJ (conventional) = 73,176 psi
zinc = 1325ppm
phos = 1234 ppm
ZDDP = 1200 ppm

17. 15W40 “NEW” SHELL ROTELLA T Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CF-4,CF/SM = 72,022 psi
zinc = 1454 ppm
phos = 1062 ppm
ZDDP = 1200 ppm

18. 0W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 (semi-synthetic) = 71,377 psi
zinc = 1621 ppm
phos = 1437 ppm
ZDDP = 1500 ppm

19. 15W40 “OLD” SHELL ROTELLA T Diesel Oil conventional, API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4,CG-4,CF-4,CF,SL, SJ, SH = 71,214 psi
zinc = 1171 ppm
phos = 1186 ppm
ZDDP = 1100 ppm

20. 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 (semi-synthetic) = 71,206 psi
zinc = 1557 ppm
phos = 1651 ppm
ZDDP = 1600 ppm

21. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
ZDDP = 1100 ppm

22. 30wt Edelbrock Break-In Oil conventional = 69,160 psi
zinc = 1545 ppm
phos = 1465 ppm
ZDDP = 1500 ppm

23. 10W40 Edelbrock synthetic = 68,603 psi
zinc = 1193 ppm
phos = 1146 ppm
ZDDP = 100 ppm

24. 15W40 LUCAS MAGNUM Diesel Oil, conventional, API CI-4,CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SL = 66,476 psi
zinc = 1441 ppm
phos = 1234 ppm
ZDDP = 1300 ppm

25. 10W30 Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street) synthetic = 66,211 psi
zinc = 1774 ppm
phos = 1347 ppm
ZDDP = 1500 ppm

26. 10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil conventional, API SJ = 65,553 psi
zinc = 1154 ppm
phos = 1075 ppm
ZDDP = 1100 ppm

27. 5W30 Klotz Estorlin Racing Oil, API SL synthetic = 64,175 psi
zinc = 1765 ppm
phos = 2468 ppm
ZDDP = 2100 ppm

28. “ZDDPlus” added to Royal Purple 20W50, API SN, synthetic = 63,595 psi
zinc = 2436 ppm (up 1848 ppm)
phos = 2053 ppm (up 1356 ppm)
ZDDP = 2200 ppm
The amount of ZDDPlus added to the oil, was the exact amount the manufacturer called for on the bottle. And the resulting psi value here was 24% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the ZDDPlus was added to it. Most major Oil Companies say to NEVER add anything to their oils, because adding anything will upset the carefully balanced additive package, and ruin the oil’s chemical composition. And that is precisely what we see here. Adding ZDDPlus SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

29. Royal Purple 10W30 Break-In Oil conventional = 62,931 psi
zinc = 1170 ppm
phos = 1039 ppm
ZDDP = 1100 ppm

30. 10W30 Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Hi-Performance Oil, conventional = 62,538 psi
zinc = 2116 ppm
phos = 1855 ppm
ZDDP = 1900 ppm

31. 10W30 Comp Cams Muscle Car & Street Rod Oil, synthetic blend = 60,413 psi
zinc = 1673 ppm
phos = 1114 ppm
ZDDP = 1300 ppm

32. 10W40 Torco TR-1 Racing Oil with MPZ conventional = 59,905 psi
zinc = 1456 ppm
phos = 1150 ppm
ZDDP = 1300 ppm

33. “ZDDPlus” added to O’Reilly (house brand) 5W30, API SN, conventional = 56,728 psi
zinc = 2711 ppm (up 1848 ppm)
phos = 2172 ppm (up 1356 ppm)
ZDDP = 2400 ppm
The amount of ZDDPlus added to the oil, was the exact amount the manufacturer called for on the bottle. And the resulting psi value here was 38% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the ZDDPlus was added to it. Adding ZDDPlus SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

34. 10W40 Summit Racing Premium Racing Oil, API SL conventional = 59,483 psi
zinc = 1764 ppm
phos = 1974 ppm
Claimed ZDDP level on the bottle = 1800 ppm
NOTE: Summit discontinued this line of oil, as of spring of 2013.

35. “ZDDPlus” added to Motorcraft 5W30, API SN, synthetic = 56,243 psi
zinc = 2955 ppm (up 1848 ppm)
phos = 2114 ppm (up 1356 ppm)
ZDDP = 2500 ppm
The amount of ZDDPlus added to the oil, was the exact amount the manufacturer called for on the bottle. And the resulting psi value here was 12% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the ZDDPlus was added to it. Adding ZDDPlus SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

36. “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” added to Royal Purple 5W30, API SN, synthetic = 54,044 psi
zinc = 1515 ppm (up 573 ppm)
phos = 1334 ppm (up 517 ppm)
ZDDP = 1400 ppm
The amount of Edelbrock Zinc Additive added to the oil, was the exact amount the manufacturer called for on the bottle. And the resulting psi value here was a whopping 36% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

37. 10W30 Comp Cams Break-In Oil conventional = 51,749 psi
zinc = 3004 ppm
phos = 2613 ppm
ZDDP = 2800 ppm

38. “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” added to Lucas 5W30, API SN, conventional = 51,545 psi
zinc = 1565 ppm (up 573 ppm)
phos = 1277 ppm (up 517 ppm)
ZDDP = 1400 ppm
The amount of Edelbrock Zinc Additive added to the oil, was the exact amount the manufacturer called for on the bottle. And the resulting psi value here was a “breath taking” 44% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

39. “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” added to Motorcraft 5W30, API SN, synthetic = 50,202 psi
zinc = 1680 ppm (up 573 ppm)
phos = 1275 ppm (up 517 ppm)
ZDDP = 1400 ppm
The amount of Edelbrock Zinc Additive added to the oil, was the exact amount the manufacturer called for on the bottle. And the resulting psi value here was 22% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

40. 30wt Lucas Break-In Oil conventional = 49,455 psi
zinc = 4483 ppm
phos = 3660 ppm
ZDDP = 4000 ppm

So, as you saw above, the highest ranking high zinc oil that provided the BEST WEAR PROTECTION of this group of 40 high zinc oils, had 3000 ppm ZDDP. But, the lowest ranking high zinc oil had one third MORE ZDDP at 4000 ppm. Even though this lowest ranked oil had far more zinc in it, it provided LESS THAN HALF AS MUCH WEAR PROTECTION, making it by far the worst of all 40 oils tested. Then the 4th place oil had only 1100 ppm ZDDP, and the 7th place oil had only 1000 ppm ZDDP.

So, the results above show 2 distinct things:

1. My tester and test procedure have no problem at all showing excellent performing high zinc oils. Therefore, no one can justifiably argue that my testing somehow works against high zinc oils. The absolute fact is, my oil testing performs worst case torture testing on motor oil. So, an oil HAS TO BE GOOD to produce good results. And we saw many high zinc oils with excellent results here. So, when the naysayers slam the value of my testing, they’re also saying at the same time, that high zinc oils are no good, since my testing shows excellent high zinc oils to provide excellent protection. They can’t have it both ways.

2. This is ABSOLUTE PROOF that not all high zinc oils have equal wear protection capabilities, which is the whole point I’ve been making for well over a year now. And why would anyone think that all high zinc oils are good? Not all tires are good. Not all cylinder heads are good. Not all camshafts are good. The world just doesn’t work that way. Some high zinc oils are quite good and provide excellent wear protection, while other high zinc oils are not good at all, and provide rather poor wear protection. It just depends on the particular oil in question. And that makes it totally clear here, that you simply CANNOT predict an oil’s wear protection capability by looking only at its zinc level. Life is just NOT that simple. If you only look at zinc levels, that is no better than guessing. So, if anyone tells you that you need high levels of zinc for more wear protection, even if it comes from a Cam Company, don’t believe a word of it. Because as you can see above, they have no idea what they are talking about. Would you really want to use the 40th ranked last place oil simply because it has more zinc than the number one ranked oil here? That is just what you’d be doing if you believed the incorrect advice about only looking at zinc levels. The ONLY way to know for sure how much wear protection any given oil can provide, is to look at “dynamic wear testing under load” results, such as I have provided above.

My oil testing data is very similar in concept to dyno testing an engine. An engine dyno test is also dynamic testing under load. For the guys who just want to look at a motor oil zinc level reference chart, that is like looking at an engine’s build sheet instead of its dyno print out. You can decide for yourself which provides more meaningful information.

540 RAT
Original Post
Similar information to that found in the link I posted in sticky #4, excepting it focuses on the high zinc oil only? Same guy (540 RAT). Valvoline VR1 still near the top, better than Joe Gibbs, better than Brad Penn. The two top oils are "not for street use".
quote:
Originally posted by George P:
Similar information to that found in the link I posted in sticky #4, excepting it focuses on the high zinc oil only? Same guy (540 RAT). Valvoline VR1 still near the top, better than Joe Gibbs, better than Brad Penn. The two top oils are "not for street use".
Hello George; I'm "Confused" as to "WHAT" properties an oil would contain that would disqualiy useage on the street.

My thinking would be obviously counter-intuitive meaning, if a certain oil can withstand the hardships of RACING!!!...How would LESS demands of the oil in a street engine negate the beneficial properties of the oil that are so advantageous on the race track???!!!...Mark
I seem to recall overhearing that the TBN mentioned was the Total Base Number addatives to the oil to allow it to nutralize the acidic blowby contamination. the oil changing pH as it is used is a major reason for the change interval. the trace amount of moisture in the oil alone with the lower TBNs will lead to corrision and wear.
So for some reason the racing oil does not have the additives for multiple starts (heatup and cooldown cycles)
quote:
Originally posted by JFB #05177:
I seem to recall overhearing that the TBN mentioned was the Total Base Number addatives to the oil to allow it to nutralize the acidic blowby contamination. the oil changing pH as it is used is a major reason for the change interval. the trace amount of moisture in the oil alone with the lower TBNs will lead to corrision and wear.
So for some reason the racing oil does not have the additives for multiple starts (heatup and cooldown cycles)
Is there an additive that helps/protects oil from cool down cycles.

I would think with a certain degree of certainty, that oil in ANY form, benefits from cooling down to maintain it's ultimate lubrication properties without the need for an additive to help achieve it.

I thought maybe incorrectly that the only way to cool oil was either by contact with cooler air or a cooler liquid.

Is there such a chemical that can be added to oil to help cool it?...Mark
I did not provide a good written discussion, mainly because this is not my area of expertise.

what I meant to imply was that for repeated starts, the oil heats up and the blowby products, including water enter the oil. during a shutdown the oil cools and those contaminates form acids.

non racing oils have the additives that are nuteralize the acids that allow allow the motor to have multiple starts. the nuturilizing base pH are also part of the detergent additives. I believe the reason racing oils don't use these additives as they reduce the extreme pressure properties of the metals and contribute to foaming.

I do believe that the TBN addatives can be purchased seprately and added. again, I have not dealt with automotive oil, but I thought that was one of the sales pitches for "AmsOil" way back when. one needs to be careful when increasing TBN as the nuetulized acids become solid metal salts and then become abbrasive

when I was driving alot for work (and making tons of overtime), I was sending samples of my motor oil for anyslis and the TBN # was the major indicator for my change interval
Can one assume similar protection results from the brands at different weights?

I just spent $100 on Joe Gibbs Hotrod "high zinc" non-synthetic 15-50 on the recomendation of a known engine builder.

In the past I had issues when changing to synthetics with leaks springing up where they weren't before, so I tend to prefer using dino oils.

It does seem that synthetic oils DO give better protection, and my first choices (although they would have been the non-synthetic versions) of Joe Gibbs and Brad Penn didn't test as high as I would have thought they would have.

I JUST put the new Joe Gibbs conventional 15-50 :hotrod" high zinc formula in my car, so I'll run it for now, but of course, I want to run the best oil in my expensive engine that I can buy.

So, if I were willing to switch to synthetic, at 20-50, the best oil i can put in my engine would be the Lucas racing oil (I plan to change my oil VERY often, so addatives for prolonging oil change intervals don't apply to me here).
quote:

Originally posted by 1Rocketship:

... I'm "Confused" as to "WHAT" properties an oil would contain that would disqualiy useage on the street ...



If a manufacturer warns an oil is not fit for street use, I don't argue. I'm not a chemical engineer and therefore I'm not the best person to answer your question. Its obviously related to the additive package.

My knowledge about motor oil, like many subjects, is a mixture of recommendations from "mechanics and racers" I trust, advice and comments from other grass roots racers, personal experience, and feed back from folks who I have worked with in the past. Feedback is always very important to me. Not helpful to you Mark ... I know. And I wish I could be more helpful. But I'm just being honest.

I was not raised to be a Valvoline fan. Long ago I preferred Castrol in air cooled motorcyles and in all of my automobiles. Castrol seemed to run very clean and very well in all applications, including air cooled applications. In contrast, Valvoline left a disgusting "grey" colored residue in engines, Pennzoil left a brown varnish in engines. Quaker State was better than those two, but Castrol held up to the heat of air cooled motorcycles the best as judged by the rate of discoloration, how well it retained its "tackiness", the amount of particulates found in the oil after x number of rides, and how badly the ring grooves "carboned-up". Therefore I had been a Castrol fan since the 1960s, as were many motorcyclists. So I have no "Valvoline" agenda I'm trying to vindicate or justify. I have no "ego" invested in the use of Valvoline oil.

Having prefaced my comments thus, there's a tremendous amount of modern grass roots support for Valvoline VR1. I feel the fact that 540 RAT's testing backs this up, lends credence to his results, and not the other way around. I feel very safe recommending VR1 to you guys. My preference would be the synthetic variety. The synthetics should keep the engine cleaner internally AND keep the rings sealing better (no carbon build-up in the ring grooves). My preference for synthetic oil is something I can expound upon (doesn't require a chemical degree).

When synthetic oil was first introduced to the consumer market (1970s) there had been lots of problems associated with its use. I had used synthetic oil at work in industrial applications with mixed results; I was not sold on the benefits of synthetic oil in the 1970s. By the 1980s those problems were reported to be resolved. Amsoil 20W50 was recommended to me, therefore Amsoil became my first foray into the personal use of synthetic oil, circa 1980s, in my air cooled 4 stroke motorcycles (street bikes and dirt bikes). The results of using Amsoil were way better than using Castrol had been. The positive experiences using Amsoil 20W50 in the air cooled 4 strokes led to using Bel Ray synthetic pre-mix oil in the two strokes. I tore down the motorcycle engines from time to time, thus I had opportunity to view the internals and see what differences, if any, the synthetic oil was making. The Amsoil came out of the 4 strokes looking the same color as it did when I poured it in. And it was just as tacky too. The period of time between valve adjustments increased. There was no carbon build-up in the combustion chamber or ring grooves. The Bel Ray oil kept the exhaust power valves of the two strokes absolutely clean, no carbon build up in the exhaust port at all. In fact there was a thin film of "clear" lubricant on the power valve parts, it felt and looked like a thin film of silicon grease or petroleum jelly. Two stroke exhaust ports were something that I had previously had to scrape the carbon out of from time to time. The absence of carbon was absolutely amazing. Obviously the synthetic lubricants handled high temperatures much better than the petroleum based lubricants I had used in the past, and petroleum based Castrol had the reputation for being the best (petroleum based) oil for air cooled (high temperature) applications.

So after a decade of using Amsoil synthetics in my motorcycles I decided to try Mobil 1 in the daily driver car I purchased after one of my sons totaled my second Mach 1 Mustang (mid-1990s). Amsoil was too expensive to use 5 quarts at a time! I began using Mobil One in my daily drivers circa 1994, with unbelievably good results. Before retirement I put a lot of miles on the cars I drove to work daily (roughly 30,000 per year). I've used Mobil 1 10W30 in the last three daily driver cars I've owned (T-Bird, Taurus, Continental), each was sold off after I put 200,000 miles on them, each had gradually burned less and less oil than they did when they were new. The rings were seating better and better as time went on. And internally the engines looked like new castings, no build-up of anything anywhere. The chassis components and other parts of those cars were worn out, but the short blocks (and cylinder heads) of the engines were in great shape.

Based on those personal experiences using synthetic motor oil, and on the feedback from others regarding Valvoline VR1, I use (and recommend) Valvoline VR1 10W30 synthetic in my 351C, straight out of the bottle, no additives. If its an old engine, petroleum based VR1 would probably be good enough, I'd save the synthetic for a fresh engine. If the bearings of the old engine are in bad shape 15W40 or 20W50 may be a better choice. Let the "hot" oil pressure be your guide in that regard.

If you had told me 20 years ago that someday I would be using Valvoline myself and recommending it to others I would have told you you're crazy.
I think what has happened is that there are so many superior oils available now that ranking them makes some look like losers and they simply are not.

It all depends on what you want. There are many to choose from. If you simply want the best at any cost, then go to the top of the list.

I look at it a little differently. I only need protection over a certain level.

I average that with cost. When I come up with the "weighted" values I go back to what I have used for the last 35 years. Mobil1 full synthetic.

I add one can of STP Blue per 6 quarts to raise the ZDDP levels and forget about it. I don't think you can buy that in California. I think CA banned it's sale there because of the high DDP content.

I still maintain that there is no reason to run 20-50 in a Cleveland. Particularly one that, let's get the number right now Doug, runs bearing clearances in the .0015 to .0020 (got it) vicinity. 10-40 or even 10-30 is fine.

Just watch your hot oil pressures. If the gauge shows 60 with a warm engine and you go and "let the boy run" and it comes back with 10 psi, then run thicker oil OR change the oil after each one of these runs BECAUSE you've just killed the viscosity of the oil.

The race cars do this all the time.

There isn't anything in the Mobil1 synthetic that is going to shrink your seals and give you phantom leaks.

Phantom leaks in a Cleveland are often associated with too high of a crankcase pressure.

I used to get oil puddles under the distributor with just running open breathers with my first Weber setup.

NEVER had a crankcase seal leak in any of my Clevelands using Mobil 1 either.

Mobil1 was just reformulated "recently" check the weights and specifications on them now before you buy.

DO NOT use RACE OIL on street car UNLESS you are going to change it DAILY.
quote:
Valvoline VR1

a true racing oil is for sure not a good choice for a full-interval street driven car, but I suspect the VR-1 is somewhat of a hybrid 'suitable for racing' with a full additive package to make it safe in the crankcase for several thousand miles if the engine doesn't whip it to death (molecular shear)
----------
http://www.valvoline.com/produ...l/racing-motor-oil/6

"Formulated for race engines, but compatible with passenger vehicles too."
----------
http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/76

"What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue?

Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue:

1.Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil: Contains 75% higher zinc than SM motor oil with a balanced additive package
designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-
rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades:
20w50, straight 50, 10w30, straight 30, straight 40, and straight 60.


2.Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/phosphorus additive that keeps higher
levels of phosphorus in the motor oil where it protects the engine instead of poisoning the catalytic
converter. Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across its entire line of passenger
car motor oils including SynPower -- the only synthetic oil that offers this additive.

Which oil has more zinc/ZDDP: VR1 or "Not Street Legal" racing oil?


Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13 percent of zinc and .12 percent of phosphorus compared to the
Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil which contains .14 percent of zinc and .13 percent of phosphorus."
----------
the Hooky Spooky 'not for use in blah blah blah motor vehicles operated on public highways' warning is likely a legal disclaimer ala your friendly E P A ?

I doubt Roush & Childress are too keen on a dry sump system full of semi-solids because they didn't drain while the oil was still hot, they don't make 1930's oil anymore
a true racing oil is for sure not a good choice for a full-interval street driven car, but I suspect the VR-1 is somewhat of a hybrid 'suitable for racing' with a full additive package to make it safe in the crankcase for several thousand miles if the engine doesn't whip it to death (molecular shear)
----------
http://www.valvoline.com/produ...l/racing-motor-oil/6

"Formulated for race engines, but compatible with passenger vehicles too."
----------
http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/76

"What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue?

Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue:

1.Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil: Contains 75% higher zinc than SM motor oil with a balanced additive package
designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-
rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades:
20w50, straight 50, 10w30, straight 30, straight 40, and straight 60.


2.Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/phosphorus additive that keeps higher
levels of phosphorus in the motor oil where it protects the engine instead of poisoning the catalytic
converter. Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across its entire line of passenger
car motor oils including SynPower -- the only synthetic oil that offers this additive.

Which oil has more zinc/ZDDP: VR1 or "Not Street Legal" racing oil?


Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13 percent of zinc and .12 percent of phosphorus compared to the
Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil which contains .14 percent of zinc and .13 percent of phosphorus."
----------
the Hooky Spooky 'not for use in blah blah blah motor vehicles operated on public highways' warning is likely a legal disclaimer ala your friendly E P A ?

I doubt Roush & Childress are too keen on a dry sump system full of semi-solids because they didn't drain while the oil was still hot, they don't make 1930's oil anymore
You only need a certain level of ZDDP in almost all of these engines, i.e., Pantera engines.
Over that number, whatever it is, is counter productive.

IF you are using any kind of ZDDP contents then if the oil isn't hot when you change it, it can tend to stick to the pan in the corners and act as a solid.

I remember lots of times scraping the semi-hardened gunk out of the corners of oil pans. Without being a chemist I'd bet a large percentage of that was ZDDP itself that wasn't dissolved in solution sufficiently?



By the same token, there should be no one here worried about contamination a cat with their oil and considering how fragile the flat lifter camshafts can be the 70s ZDDP engineering number is really a good idea to maintain in the oil.


I happen to agree with not contaminating the cats. Cars properly engineered to run them have been around for a while and actually run quite well. Amerisport is the only one that "built" Panteras that ever had to worry about that?

I wonder if there was a consideration for the oil for those engines?



Same thing with unleaded fuels. Many hydo-carbon substances are quite poisonous and toxic. "Lead" in fuels is one of them. I don't miss the stuff at all. Ford heads do not suffer from loosing lead in fuel. The cast iron used in nodular and not the soft iron GM used.


It's been quite a while since Penn State oil was made from only pure Pennsylvania grade crude. It's all a blend now but am I remembering it correctly that it was not an oil that contained sulfur and that's what made it the best?
Lots of confusing technical info in this motor oil thread. I am getting my '72 Pre-L back on the road after a long sleep. Fluid changes are the first order of business. My 351C engine is bone stock with 40k on the clock and it's never been opened.

Is there a concensus for a recommended mineral (not synthetic or semi-synthetic) oil for 100% street use? Also what is the recommended viscosity and what is the current thinking on adding a ZDDP additive? I've used Valvoline 10W40 in the past, but can't recall if it was VR1.

Thanks very much.

usmcfred

# 03041
'72 Pre-L
I use Amsoil in all my street and race cars, for $20 you can join their preferred customer program and get wholesale pricing.

Their Z-Rod brand is fully synthetic for older cars requiring ZDDP, available in 10W-30 or 20W-50.

Julian
The 351C was designed to use 20W40 motor oil.

ZDDP additives reduce the wear protection properties of motor oil. Hard for some to wrap their mind around, but true still the same. Don't use additives. I remember people sharing that advice back in the 1960s! It hasn't changed.

I recommend Valvoline VR1 10W30 synthetic straight out of the bottle, no additives, for low mileage engines or fresh engines. If its an old engine, petroleum based 10W30 VR1 shall be good enough, but still with no additives. If the bearings of the old engine are in bad shape 20W50 petroleum based VR1 may be a better choice. Let the "hot" oil pressure be your guide in that regard.

Hot oil pressure should be 50 psi minimum at 2000 rpm, anything less than that means your Pantera's engine has bearing clearance problems over taxing the capabilities of the oil pump. The OEM 351C oil pump was a high volume pump, it had a thicker rotor than the oil pumps of other Ford engines. If the hot oil pressure runs low all you can do is use 20W50 and live with it.
To add one small fact to George's post: do NOT believe your stock oil pressure gauge. It lies! Approximately 100% of stock Pantera oil pressure gauges read low- some by 50%. All they really do is tell you the engine is running. First calibrate your electric gauge by temporarily adding a mechanical gauge on a tee fitting in the back of the block. Feel free to leave it there, too- mine has been there since 1990.
quote:
Originally posted by usmcfred:
Thanks Boss. Is there a gauge you can recommend that is accurate? I assume it gets plumbed into the port that now contains the bell shaped oil pressure sender ... correct?

usmcfred
'72 Pre-L
#03041


I took out the Veglia's and put in VDO's. I immediately got more oil pressure without changing the pump and my car no longer was overheating?

Big Grin

Lots of people don't like them though. They are too easy to read.

Attachments

Photos (1)

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post
×
×
×
×