Engine rebuild

It depends on the core the cam is ground on. I have a -9 from Comp Cams which requires a bronze gear.
I inspected my gear after the build / dyno run, also after ~2,000 miles and it was showing no wear. I am at ~ 3,500 on the gear and no problems so far.
I do run a high volume oil pump. A quick and dirty way for me to check wear would be to see if the ignition timing has altered with a timing light, maybe I should check some time..
If you can use a melonite gear that is certainly the best way but using the wrong gear can also ruin the gear on the camshaft which is an expensive and more complicated replacement. Plus all the metal fragments created.

If it were me I would use a polymer gear.

I saw that Tri-Tec is the only company offering the composite / polymer gears for the 351c. They seem to have mixed reviews. When the polymer gear goes it seems to loose all drive, the bronze gear seems to keep wearing. Do you know anyone who runs a polymer gear?

The Comp can tech department referred me to the M.S.D. gear, again, the builder knew that this was for a regularly driven Pantera, the bronze gear was showing wear upon inspection. and I have another UPDATE! the oil pick-up I ordered from the oil pan maker arrived and it did not fit!
I am in the process of re-fabricating this over priced part, A word to the new comers to the Pantera aftermarket, most everything in my 20+ years of repairing my car with aftermarket components,what you get is a starting point, then after whittling, bending, re-welding and a lot of 4 letter words later, they fit!! Do I sound bitter? Naaaaaaaaa

quote:

Originally posted by bdud:
I saw that Tri-Tec is the only company offering the composite / polymer gears for the 351c. They seem to have mixed reviews. When the polymer gear goes it seems to loose all drive, the bronze gear seems to keep wearing. Do you know anyone who runs a polymer gear?

quote:

aftermarket components,what you get is a starting point, then after whittling, bending, re-welding and a lot of 4 letter words later, they fit!!

Don't forget most parts, from simple to highly complex, come without any instructions or installation tips.

Sigh....

Larry

quote:

They seem to have mixed reviews.

bdud, I assume when you say poly gears have "mixed reviews", some were negative. Can you elaborate on what the problems were?

Tri-Tech told me they've never had a 351C/460 gear fail. They have seen installation related problems but never a failure of the gear itself, when the gear was properly installed. Installation problems usually involve not checking the installed height of the gear on the dist. shaft and/or not checking the O.D. of the dist. shaft vs. the I.D. of the hole in the gear, to confirm the proper press fit. A correct press fit is critical with poly gears. Also, you cannot drill another set of holes in a poly gear if the first holes were drilled in the wrong location. You either use the existing cross drilled holes or you throw it away but you can't drill another set of holes 90 degrees from the existing holes, like you can with a steel, iron or brass gear.

I just did a search of composite / poly gears. One guy whose engine just stopped, showed a picture where the gear sheared at the roll pin. His mechanic had drilled an additional hole and most likely weakened it. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/1...or-gear-failure.html
A couple of other threads, with completely stripped gears, one running 20w50 oil with a hv oil pump. No failures on Tri-Tec that I saw, interested to hear any real world experiences with them.
With the bronze gear I presume you might see the sparkly shivers in the oil, not sure about the poly / composite. I checked my timing the other day to see if anything had changed, maybe one or 2 degrees less than where I last set it. I will check it again ~500 miles, I engraved my timing marks on the flywheel so I can check it from the back of the engine.

I'd suggest neither of the issues you mention have anything to do with the fact a composite gear was being used.

Shearing roll pins is a common problem with some Ford engines and certainly has nothing to do with the type of gear being used. I'd guess Jack DeRyke has written a dozen articles on this subject over the years, in various POCA publications. Part of the solution is to use split pins, not roll pins and to double pin. That means driving a 3/32" pin inside the 1/8" main pin.

Also, if the gear is installed at the wrong height on the shaft, it will destroy itself in no time. That's why Ford doesn't sell dist. gears with holes drilled through them. That way, you're forced to figure out where the gear should be located on the shaft. If you buy a distributor with a gear already mounted and throw it in your engine, without confirming the gear is in the correct location, you're asking for trouble.

You can search for yourself for issues, Google is your friend. Msd and the tri-tech gear on their websites both show drilled. Sometimes not always all the way through. You just re-drill the shaft. Do you know anyone using Ng one?

Before I got committed to the Coyote 302 motor I was seriously considering this as a motor option.
http://fordperformanceracingpa...p?PartKeyField=11892

I have to imaging that Fords 540 HP number is legitimate,
I know its a W block but hey I think it has to be well engineered and pretty Bomb proof.

The crate motor you want is from Ford racing M-6007-Z427FFT*, the 427 Cleveland based motor about $10,000 their is no substitute for cubic inches. ( 2 year warranty )a bolt in with only minor changes to the water pump routing.

quote:

Originally posted by agustaboy:
Before I got committed to the Coyote 302 motor I was seriously considering this as a motor option.
http://fordperformanceracingpa...p?PartKeyField=11892

I have to imaging that Fords 540 HP number is legitimate,
I know its a W block but hey I think it has to be well engineered and pretty Bomb proof.

True about displacement.
I believe the 427 Crate motor is also a Windsor.

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
The crate motor you want is from Ford racing M-6007-Z427FFT*, the 427 Cleveland based motor about $10,000 their is no substitute for cubic inches. ( 2 year warranty )a bolt in with only minor changes to the water pump routing.

quote:

Originally posted by agustaboy:
Before I got committed to the Coyote 302 motor I was seriously considering this as a motor option.
http://fordperformanceracingpa...p?PartKeyField=11892

I have to imaging that Fords 540 HP number is legitimate,
I know its a W block but hey I think it has to be well engineered and pretty Bomb proof.

The new one from Ford is Cleveland architecture Windsor heads

quote:

Originally posted by agustaboy:
True about displacement.
I believe the 427 Crate motor is also a Windsor.

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
The crate motor you want is from Ford racing M-6007-Z427FFT*, the 427 Cleveland based motor about $10,000 their is no substitute for cubic inches. ( 2 year warranty )a bolt in with only minor changes to the water pump routing.

quote:

Originally posted by agustaboy:
Before I got committed to the Coyote 302 motor I was seriously considering this as a motor option.
http://fordperformanceracingpa...p?PartKeyField=11892

I have to imaging that Fords 540 HP number is legitimate,
I know its a W block but hey I think it has to be well engineered and pretty Bomb proof.

quote:

The new one from Ford is Cleveland architecture Windsor heads

I'm confused.

Does that mean they are designed for a Windsor block (coolant passages, etc) but have the Cleveland semi-hemi combustion chambers?

Larry

It's a 9.5" Windsor block with the 351C main journal diameter. The heads have inline, not canted, valves.

Kaase P-38 heads ARE Windsor heads with Cleveland valve angles, 2.10" intake valve, 1.6 exhaust valve, shallow (like a Cleveland) high swirl combustion chamber. They bolt directly to Windsor blocks, have Windsor cooling passages, and mate with Windsor intake manifolds & headers. The slightly smaller intake valve allows for the combustion chamber to be sized to actually fit within a 4.00" bore. They flow very well for having such low port heights (standard Windsor port heights).

They're the only Windsor heads like that, which I'm aware of.