Ethanol

We have been using an 85/15 mix in NY for something like 5 years.
With that mixture you need to do nothing to the vehicle.
Yes you are going to loose gas milage. Mine droped about 30% accross the board on all of my vehicles.

You would think that we would have the option of fueling a flex vehicle in NYS but not so. You can only buy 85/15. 15/85 isn't for sale anywhere that I know of except maybe Indiana.

I think that new vehicles MPG is posted with 100% gasolene. That means that there isn't anyone getting the fleet required averages here.

Isn't politics a wonderfull thing? I say there should be a bounty posted on all of there heads.

Have you had problem with rubber fuel system parts? The first thing that happened here was clogged fuel filters as the ethanol cleaned out fuel tanks and systems. The next thing was parts especially older rubber pars erroding.

Not sure why people have this problem. When Illinois started using ethanol in the mid 80s, I found I could get the same mileage and even better power with the ethanol blend. The only problem I have noticed is a higher potential for vapor lock and carb boil over.

Boat fuel tanks is a genuine problem though as well as two stroke engines getting damaged.

Any Ethanol/Gas mix will reduce MPG and power. The factor is that Ethanol has less energy then Gas. So a Ethanol mix will require more consumption for the same energy.

One would hope you end up paying less for decreased performance and MPG. Of course that is too much to ask for.

When we get into the flexi-fuels we see a real decrease. But any blend in any ratio will reduce MPG. Think back to thermo-dyanmics class "Nothing is free".

In the end it is win-lose. Good for the air, but you consume more and it is far more aggressive on metal, rubber and skin.

quote:

Originally posted by CrazyDave:
Not sure why people have this problem. When Illinois started using ethanol in the mid 80s, I found I could get the same mileage and even better power with the ethanol blend. The only problem I have noticed is a higher potential for vapor lock and carb boil over.

Boat fuel tanks is a genuine problem though as well as two stroke engines getting damaged.

Dave,

Any changes for the car to run better with the ethanol blend? My jetting seems to be close according to my A/F gauge and the car seems to be running the best as it can with the fuel.

I have noticed a 2-3 MPG decrease in my Aurora powered by a Northstar V8 with adaptable ignition timing. I would think that more ignition advance can be attained since ethanol has a higher octane rating, this should help a little with MPG. Although it will never compensate for the lower energy content of ethanol. I set my Pantera timing advance to the "edge" I can tell whenever a tank of gas isn't the octane it is supposed to be. I operate the Pantera approximately stoichiometric and still I only get about 16 MPG. More efficient heads and less gear is what we need.

I think15-16 mpg is excellent considering if you added back the lost 30% you would be around 20 mpg.

As far as timing goes it is a function of octane rating. Octane rating is a measure of the pressure the fuel needs to be compressed into explosion.

The higher the number, the higher the pressure required. Also the higher the octane the less the enery released.

Engines run with 91 octane on an engine dyno will make more power then those run on 93. Not a lot more. Usually around another 7-10hp.

92 to 93 is our Premium at the pump here, depending on the brand.

Sunoco being the highest posted. I'm running on Shell Premium. 92, 85/15. No problems with component corrosion. It's got a funny smell though. It isn't sweet. It's kinda bitter.

My Taurus SHO although it is "recommended" to run on Premium likes regular as well. I think it makes more power on regular but runs smoother on Premium.

I can tell you from the old days, that a Cleveland with pop-up dome pistons and quench heads makes a lot of power. It is close to 600hp that way.

Unfortunately that set up requires octane that is no longer available at the pumps.

I do remember it to be considerably better on gas milage then today though.

Hey Dennis,
I started buying my gas at the harbor here a couple of weeks ago, all you need is cash! It was $3.66 last week when I fueled!
While there I actually ran into one of Mark Rod. friends, and we had a nice chat!
Tim

I was told that the harbors will not sell gas to be pumped into cars. It's something to do with the taxes. I've heard guys say that legally they can't sell you gas to be pumped into cars but you can take down gas cans supposedly to be put into boats and other say that say they won't. I'll have to go down and see for myself!

I never did anything to my cars to run on 10% blend. And there is no scientific analysis. I can just say that there was no aparent difference.

I have actually noticed more problems with brands than using alcohol blend or not. The fuel I have found best is Phillips or Citgo. When going to college, if I would fuel up at Mobil, I would have less power and get 3 mpg less than if I used Phillips. Both had Alcohol. A local dyno shop said that they have found that cars that fuel up at Shell will show 5% less HP than when the same car empties the tank and fills up at BP(Amoco). Thus, I dont like Shell and never really have. I also dont care for 76. I have used some small store stuff like Hucks, Caseys, and Speedway and have not had much problems there. I have gotten a plugged carb from both BP and Fuel City before.

And btw. If you want some high octane at the pump, rejet to run E85 which is 105 octane.

I also dont buy the loose mileage and power with 10% blend. Alchol burns more completely than gasoline at a wider fuel ratio range. For example, you cannot get an alchol engine too rich or flood it out trying to start it. Also, a gasoline engine pumps tons of unburnt fuel out the exhaust and it burns in the way out the exhaust valve. I feel that the 10% alcohol burns completely in the cylinder where perhaps only 60% of the gasoline would of burnt. Thus right there you could get back much of the power and econemy. Remember the needing more effecient heads to get better power and econemy? That is to burn more gasoline.

Another point to remember. Gasoline engines use 1/3 of the btus to turn the crank, 1/3 is heat in the radiator, and 1/3 as heat in the exhaust. A 100% alcohol engine makes so little heat that they can pull a sled down a 300 foot track making 2500 hp and running for about 60 seconds with no water in the engine. Under full power an alky engine has 900 deg exhaust temps. Gas engines at the power are twice the temperature at near 1800. My car cruises down the road at 1200 deg. Thus it is my assertion that with proper conditions, you can get a higher percentage of the btu content of alcohol turning the crank than you can with gasoline. And under those conditions, you could get higher MPH than gasoline. Anyone car to bump up to 14 to 1 compression and try E85 as a test?