First Start of new 180's

the continous drone when above idle sounds great! the installation looks GOOD too!

Nothing like 180's! Sounds great.

Which setup did you go with. Looks and sounds great!

Hello Brent; Sent you a PM...Mark

love the sound of the 180s!!

does anyone have a dyno sheet with a before and after 180 header install? wondering what kind of gains you would see.

Sounds great! Would like to see some details and pics of your engine bay.

Thanks Guys! Haven't driven it yet, worked on muffler brackets and heat shield last night, hope to take it for a spin saturday and get a feel for the before and after.

The shop where I have it has 3 other Panteras - great little place that we all rent together. 2 others also have 180's, so mostly this was a peer pressure thing :-) They say the "butt" dyno shows an immediate improvement in throttle response and that it feels like it has more pull. I'll certainly post my experience as soon as I get it out!

The setup I have is a Tommy Hodges production. Fit and finish seem to be very good.

My bay is finished in Line-X - I'm very happy with it, as it looks better (IMHO) than a rhino-liner and is more durable than painting.

changing spark plugs can be a bit of a challenge, bin there done that

#1145

Looks and sounds so saawweet!!!!

Very nice assembly and sounds......Is it possible to show pics of how you support your " mufflers " ?

Wow! looks fantastic and sounds awesome!

Dennis

quote:

Originally posted by Brutus:
Very nice assembly and sounds......Is it possible to show pics of how you support your " mufflers " ?

Yes, thank you for putting "mufflers" in quotes :-)

We custom made brackets that attached to the back of the ZF. Back side is painted black, front is polished stainless. Here is a pict:

and one more post since I can't seem to figure out how to add more than one pict!

Great, Thank's for the pics Brent....as I could see, those bracket bolt to the end on the ZF and, at the other end, to a half moon plate were those superb " mufflers" are supported and clips to it...
I have to fabricate something for mine (2012) and looking for ideas....Thank's again.

quote:

Originally posted by Brent:
and one more post since I can't seem to figure out how to add more than one pict!

I like your adapters. I don't think they are wrong but I am thinking that the mufflers have to move with the engine movement otherwise the weld on the collector flanges will eventually fatigue and crack. Plus this is going to vibrate right through the drive line.

If you look at vintage pictures of the Ford GT40 MkIV's or the Mark IIB's (the 427 version), the engineers didn't use solid mounts.
They took long springs, the kind that you would get in Home Depot to close the wooden screen door that you made.

This allowed for vibration and expansion and contraction from the heat of the system also.


The ZF's in the GT40's had problems. The 427's did not use them. I believe that this is a Hewland 4 speed but that is not the avenue of my expertise.

The point is the mounting. The ZF may be too fragile to do this without cracking the housing or breaking the studs? I personally would be SUPER cautious of that type of mounting to it.

It's not my design, so don't come down on me. This is something that Phil Remington did as the Chief fabricator on the Ford GT program. Take your criticisms up with him...in Heaven. . Call him. 1-888-HEAVEN. You probably will need to leave a message. Don't call the 666 number. That's the other place.

My son thinks this mounting with the springs is hilarious too so you can all go laugh together I guess?



I can't tell if this is an original MkIV or a current "continuation car". It's hard to tell and all the originals vary in details according to who were the mechanics on each car.

I have another shot somewhere in my files of a known original and the spring location is further down the pipes about 6" in from the end. I'll see if I can find it and post.

Excellent point, Doug!! the metal I used is pretty flexible back and forth for expansion, but is relatively rigid. I'll see what some other folks have done!

quote:

I like your adapters. I don't think they are wrong but I am thinking that the mufflers have to move with the engine movement otherwise the weld on the collector flanges will eventually fatigue and crack.

Note that the engine and ZF are joined together with a whole bunch of bolts and will move together as one unit. If they're moving independent of one another or in different planes, then you have a whole lot worse problems than the risk of the exhaust flange cracking. Therefore, the collector flanges should not fatigue and crack since the exhaust, engine, and ZF are all joined together and move together, as one unit.

quote:

Originally posted by garth66:....... Therefore, the collector flanges should not fatigue and crack since the exhaust, engine, and ZF are all joined together and move together, as one unit.

But the engine and TA don’t undergo the kind of temperature change the exhaust system does. The primaries and remaining exhaust system exhibit thermally induced growth and do so in the direction the tubes are pointing and if you anchor them rigidly, that thermal growth induces a lot of stress. An 1/8” movement of the 180s at the rear of the TA wouldn’t be unusual at all. Depending upon how you have it tied down, through cycles it adds up. Various stainless alloys maintain their strength at temperature better than carbon steel and can be more tolerant to a degree. It’s an even more significant issue in turbo systems and that’s why turbos typically are supported but not rigidly mounted. They always have expansion tolerance, at least the well designed ones do.

Best,
K

quote:

Originally posted by garth66:

quote:

I like your adapters. I don't think they are wrong but I am thinking that the mufflers have to move with the engine movement otherwise the weld on the collector flanges will eventually fatigue and crack.

Note that the engine and ZF are joined together with a whole bunch of bolts and will move together as one unit. If they're moving independent of one another or in different planes, then you have a whole lot worse problems than the risk of the exhaust flange cracking. Therefore, the collector flanges should not fatigue and crack since the exhaust, engine, and ZF are all joined together and move together, as one unit.

I understand that. It's just that the mufflers are hung way out there like diving boards and vibrate quite a bit. So much that they loosen the header bolts near the firewall.

To be honest, I just copied the design from Bob Benson and Richard Boschert, who are both running 180's with the same brackets. Both have had no issue with some pretty hard running of their cars. Not that they won't develop over time, but me thinks it's likely a non-issue...

Appreciate the input! I certainly see where something a bit better, that allows for the heat expansion would be preferred.

love it, thanks for sharing! gives me some motivation to finish mine.

I love your setup and the detail (already stated the sound was awsome).

as for the brackets at the end of the ZF supporting the muffler. I believe Brent stated they do have "flex" so in effect they are a "spring". with the mufflers unbolted, I expected the end of the plate could be pushed by hand (~100 lbf) at least a 1/4". the incorperation of the slight bend should also allow for for some vertical thermal growth.

assuming there is about 40" from the end of the block to the bracket, and assuming an extreme hot exhuast of 1000F, the flange will have to give about 0.006 X 40 X 1000 = 0.24"

quote:

Originally posted by JFB #05177:
I love your setup and the detail (already stated the sound was awsome).

as for the brackets at the end of the ZF supporting the muffler. I believe Brent stated they do have "flex" so in effect they are a "spring". with the mufflers unbolted, I expected the end of the plate could be pushed by hand (~100 lbf) at least a 1/4". the incorperation of the slight bend should also allow for for some vertical thermal growth.

assuming there is about 40" from the end of the block to the bracket, and assuming an extreme hot exhuast of 1000F, the flange will have to give about 0.006 X 40 X 1000 = 0.24"

That is EXACTLY the math I used :-)

Ah, the engineers have arrived? Now for the paramutuals? I'll bet you two bits AND give you 3 to 1 odds at least one breaks within 500 miles. Any takers?

well, I can't guess at the thickness nor the materials temper to calculate if the deflections are within the cyclic limits, but the ideal of spring support whether the spring is a coil or plate should work.

from the photo along, the suggestion to reduce the cross section as much as possible to provide support or possible add a "coil" feature at the bend