Friday Deadline : Pantera Parts

Bye.

Who are the vendors so the rest of us don't make the same mistake ?

Probably panteraboy. I'll send you an e-mail, Coz.

Yup, I agree with panteraboy's assessment. Bye is what I said to my Pantera this AM. Back on with the car cover, it was built to look at, like all supercars. That's why they it gets photographed, because you don't see them being driven. That's whay they all have low mileage.

I see the wisdom of my car buddy's new found thrill with his new kitchen faucet. Time to shift priorities to some home remodelling projects. $4,000 will buy some nice home improvement projects, and provide a less frustrating, more productive creative and energetic outlet. Just like your home improvement projects, Coz. Also nice to look at in those photos you sent me.

That Pantera Burn Out topic you posted has a dual meaning, Coz....

I'm burned out on my Pantera. I'll ignore it for a few more years. My 2004/2005 winter upgrade project just became my 2005-2007 Pantera boredom project, like when I ever get enthusiastic about again. Maybe I'll shift my Pantera budget into some water toys for the lake and home improvement projects. At least I can control the pace of the projects.

and leave you guys to hang around and talk to panteraboy....

I just ordered about $1500 worth of parts through Collector's Choice and had no problem with getting my parts.

Again what vendors and what parts are you having trouble getting?

The rest of us would like to know so we can avoid any issues. If you are going to vent at least let the other forum members know the details.

I hope you really aren't burned out. It can happpen, one thing after another and it is easy to get down. It may seem as though you are never going to get everything sorted out, but that isn't the case.

My cars have never had low miles. My first Pantera I took on a handful of cross-country road trips, and put more miles on that car in the first 12 months of my stewardship than in the previous 12 years. Hell, I brought it from the US to France so that I could keep having fun with it.

My second Pantera has not been much different, and I've nearly doubled the miles in the 4 years I've had it. Panteras are for driving, not for looking at.

I fought demons and gremlins for the first of those two years - I didn't even make it home from buying it before I was broken down alongside the road. It's a long story, but I had to rebuild my rebuild, and have a very extensive collection of flatbed/towtruck photos. But the Pantera can be a reliable ride. It should not simply be left covered in a garage. There are many many examples of Panteras that are regularly driven, and regularly enjoyed. They aren't fragile cars - there is nothing high tech about them. There is no reason you can't make yours reliable.

It *will* be worth it in the end. It may take a lot more effort and $$ than you thought, but it *will* be worth it. Sounds like you need a little inspiration right now. Any Pantera owners nearby who can give you a fix?

As a new Pantera owner, who is going to need the services of outside vendors, I too am interested to hear which vendors I should avoid.
Thanks Mark

Mark,
Welcome aboard! I have not had any bad experiences with any vendor. From the time I bought my car I've dealt with only one guy Brian Graham. He's fair, very relible, very knowledgeable, handles allot of the small obscure parts. He's in Orange, (714) 283-3926.
I bought a low milage 74, and even though it was store in a temp. controlled garage for 15 years, it still needed a few things to make it a complete car. Enjoy your car!

Yes,, veryfast Italain,, Please E-mail me with some Info,,, I'd like to know too,,,
Thanks
Shotgungrooms@adelphia.net



PS

They are fun when they are done,,, Nothing like a bad-a____ pantera. Time and money,,,

DON'T give up Ron and DON"T give in to the Vendors that piss down your back and tell you it's raining. Unfortunatly there are a few like this out there.

On behalf of Ron, hope you don't mind buddy, he is having a problem with Pantera East and Precision ProFormance.

Don't understand what's up with Pantera East, Marino has always been straight up about his parts and the availability. I have bought many things from him over the years and he's been ok.

Don know anything about Precision ProFormance, never done any business with him.

The vendors I've done a lot of business with over the years and have been happy with the sales and service is PI Motorsports, Dave & Jerry, Pantera East, Marino, Wilkinson, Steve and Hall Pantera, Gary. Specially Jerry at PI who is always willing to help walk you through getting things done no matter how many calls and stupid questions.....

But one does have to continually check the prices on various parts & shipping because the costs do vary from vendor to vendor for the same parts.

DON'T give up Ron. Anything worth having is worth fighting for. Cancel your orders and buy from another vendor. DON'T let them get the best of you. I have and I can tell you from experience it's not worth the time or aggravation. Easier to find another vendor to deal with. After all, it is your car and you make the decisions who you buy from.

Now, uncover that monster and get back to work on it. I expect to see you in Vegas.

The half dozen or so dedicated Pantera vendors are first and foremost car guys, not businessmen. Some are more organized than others, but none of them are the Pep Boys (thankfully).

The vendors are retailers who are at the mercy of their suppliers.

Pantera-specifc parts are a low volume, specialized market. The vendors get parts when them get them.

There are only about a couple thousand actively maintained Panteras in the US. There are half a dozen vendors. Nobody is getting rich.

That might be so, but what's that got to do with telling someone the parts are in stock and will ship when they are not and don't ?

Speaking of Pep Boys, just bought a pair of new rear deck lid shocks, 24.95 each 50.00 for the pair, that will support 2 winged cars. Same exact shocks some vendors sell for 90.00 a pair.

So actually, thank you Pep Boys.......for saving me $40.00 that I can spend elsewhere on my car.....

Coz,
Did you turn those shocks over and see if they have cushions? That might be what I paid the extra $50 for.

Not yet, but will today. Will let you know.

I'm still worried about the hood staying where it's at and the shocks pushing the car through the floor if I turn them over.

Next time, just send me the extra $50.00... :-)
You know James, if I had your money, I'd throw mine away.... :-)LOL

When you hear the words "In stock", you should be VERY sure they mean "on MY shelf today as we speak". Most of the time that will NOT be the case. The various vendors often sell the very same parts and those parts will all come from one source, and various vendors are the original source for various parts. If you are not buying the part from its direct source, you are dealing with a middleman. IF that middleman uses the money you sent him to buy your parts, rather than pay the rent or some other bill, and IF the source has the part in stock, you should receive it quickly. If you go with the middleman, realize he has a bulletproof alibi (whether true or not) that the problem lies with his supplier. And he has your money. Spend some time, make some calls, ask around and buy directly. Might not be the cheapest, but will probably be the quickest. I've had very good parts supply results with Dennis Quella @ Pantera Performance Center (Denver), Marino @ Pantera East, Hall Pantera and Steve Wilkinson. YMMV.

Larry

I consistantly have had good delivery, price and technical advice from Marino at Pantera East for the past 3 years. I typically buy from him unless he isn't a supplier for a particular part.

An example; I bought a set of suspension buhings, one bushing was incorrect, we determined which one it was wrong, he promtly shipped the correct one and said just keep the incorrect one.

Lucky you. he shipped me the wrong rear wheel bearings for my car, I had to incure the shipping charges back and then paid twice as much for the right ones....Stock Vs GT-5 bearings. But that was 5 years ago. Have done some business with him since and he's been pretty decent about things.

I guess some of these vendors don't realize or even really care how much many of us talk over the phone & through private e-mail and share stories and experiences about them.


An example; I bought a set of suspension buhings, one bushing was incorrect, we determined which one it was wrong, he promtly shipped the correct one and said just keep the incorrect one.[/QUOTE]

Hey guys, let's try and sort this out. First of all I'm shocked how many people read this topic and responded, 500+ in under four days?!! I haven't even been on this BB since posting this topic and seeing Panterboy's response.

I just got really disappointed that 'Rides' wasn't going to be filming us after all the effort. I convinced myself it would happen, then got let down. Lots of folks from POCA Board of Directors, to Pantera International, to a few individuals came forward and tried to help me accomplish this goal. I got my feelings hurt, OK?

Then gasoline prices start going thru the roof, like up a nickel or dime every day, and people panic, my business drops while people hold their breath, I panic, and this is part of the back drop to the 'venting', OK?

Then I slammed thru preparing my taxes to get ahead of the game and have time to finish the Pantera project. I have ordered three sets of Pantera parts for three phases of Pantera upgrades, and every one took longer to arrive by a week or two than I thought, so this compounded to put the time squeeze on this last phase of the last project.

I broke my buddy's axle nut tool trying to remove the axle nut, so I ordered two axle nut tools from Marino at Pantera East. One original and one 'billet' axle nut removal tool. So, this way, my buddy could have his choice of axle nut removal tools to be returned to him, and I could have the other, and at least one would work if the other broke again like the first one did. Marino made a mistake and thought he had both types in inventory, or that he could get both. His secretary called last week and said they couldn't get the original axle nut removal tool, would I want 2 billet tools? OK, I agreed and they shipped. I got the order yesterday. It came from Florida, I live in New Mexico. I think they should have caught the mistake earlier or done a partial shipment like Dell Computer always does, or offered to overnight the order at their expense. like other, big companies do. But, I told her the other parts probably wouldn't arrive before that anyway, so nothing was said about upgrading shipping, we said UPS Ground is OK, and expected it Monday. It got here Thursday. The order was for 2 axle nut tools and 1 clutch teflon braided s.s. clutch hose. The axle nut tools (identical) are of a different design than original. The original tool is 1/2" drive, these are 3/4" drive. The original had 4 prongs sticking out, the new tool has the prongs that stick out also encased in a perimeter of steel for more support of the prongs whick broke off on the original tool. The new tool fits more snugly than the old tool, less chance to slip off when applying 400 foot pounds of torque to it. So, it's probably better that things worked out like this, now my buddy gets a better replacement tool and so do I. The s.s. clutch line is very nicely designed and liely a far improved upgrade from that reddish clear clutch line. So, it took a little longer than I thought, and I over reacted.

I ordered the 'Super 10 Spoke' rims from Precision Pro Formance. They are designed by Boyd Coddington. Bob Byars and his brother own that Pantera shop. He has to fill these orders as he gets them. These Pantera vendors sometimes don't keep large inventories of expensive parts laying around for years. He quoted a very competitive price, and takes the rims to get tires put on them and doesn't make but $40 for his time to get the tires installed. I checked Tire Rack's online prices, and they're doing me a favor to do this. I wanted these trick little aluminum valve stems installed that I got from Hall Pantera, so I sent them to PPF to install while PPF was getting the rims welded together, polished etc., basically, custom made for me and a few others who ordered them. I like the look, they look like the Wiliams/BMW Formula One 10 spoke wheels, that's the blue and white F-1 car. Also, I ordered the 7/8" rear sway bar, chromed from PPF. Bob Byars is a really enthusiastic Pantera guru, and in off hand conversation he said the 7/8" rear sway bar would help correct understeer, without trying to sell the beefier front sway bar. (this is consistent with Goram Malmberg's web page, where he doesn't even use a front sway bar on street use.) So, I placed the order with hi for that too. He said he would have to take one off the shelf and take it to the chrome guy to get plated and polished, so add about a week.

Like msm_portata said, these are basically cottage industry companies, doing lots of custom work and nobody's getting rich. The high volume discount places won't even talk to you about what part might fit your Pantera.

Example, I contacted www.brakewarehouse.com to get slotted/cross drilled rotors and they said they just do high volume, yeah sure, they probably have it, but contact this other dude, and gave me a referral. So I did. The new dude spent 35 minutes with me on the phone and we figured out what the part was, he then said there's no sloted/cross drilled rotor in that size, that has directional ventilated vanes. So, he said I could take my rotors to a machinist and they do that for about $100 per rotor. He seemed knowledgable and had already helped me for 35 minutes, so I placed the order with him. $700 including shipping, and they have to order the rotors, get them shipped to themselves, do the machining, then zinc dip them to prevent corrosion on the vanes, and ship to me.

This is all custom stuff, guys. Lots of people doing special little things for us. Oh yeah, those little heat treated hats for the rotors are $150 each, and none has ever failed. That's $600 for hats, $700 for rotors, add in calipers, pads, s.s./teflon hoses, emergency brake mounting bracket, six machined brackets to adapt the upgraded calipers to the Pantera, and you have a 'brake upgrade kit' so, there's lot's of expenses involved. When you break it down like that and see what the parts add up to, then see what the Pantera vendors are charging for their brake upgrade kits, well, it seems pretty fair and reasonable.

Seems to me like lots and lots of effort go into these Pantera's by lots and lots of people. That's why I'm going to Vegas, with or without my brake upgrade project completed. Just to hang out with some people who go thru all this effort to have a cool Pantera. People of a similar nature, with similar interests, and a common passion. People who have more patience than me, or who get discouraged along the way, tarp their Pantera for a while, then get after it again, like me.

Oh, and I think the weather is making me neurotic a little too. I'm tired of the cold wet stuff, and have had a glimpse of a beautiful day here and there. I don't like being cold, and running the heater and paying the heating bill.

I hope I've clarified the 'venting' thing a little, and taken some blame myself, for what it's worth. I try too hard to have fun, and it reminds me of doing wheelies on my '84 CR 500 Honda, flipping over backwards, and ending up in the hospital for two weeks, and a high technail in my femur to thread the six piece of bone back together. I was just rying to have some fun, then too. I need to not try so hard to have fun, just be cool, let it happen....

Right on Ron....That's the spirt !

Well, while everyone is on the "bitching" train.. . . my biggest gripe is the shipping from some of the vendors. I understand that it costs to ship to "end of the earth" Hawaii but I've been charged almost the same amount for shipping as the products cost even when the products are small/light in weight. My sister has a business in Arizona and sends me things all the time and shipping comes no where close to what they charge. She suspects that they are making a percentage of the shipping costs. I order from Harbor Freight Tools all the time and their shipping is a fraction of what the vendors charge. Beware of low advertised or sale prices as the shipping more than will make up for it.

BTW coz, do you have the part number of the deck lid shocks?

Thanks for all the insight guys,

"Live wrong and perspire"

Without asking I received an e-mail from FedEx saying they picked up my CDS/slotted rotors 3/24/05 and expect to deliver on 3/29/05. They gave me a tracking number and time. So, that means the FedEx guy's wireless clip board that gets signed sneds me an automatic e-mail as the guy is walking back to his truck typing in the info with his plasic pen.

I'm selecting FedEX and requesting FedEx as the shipper from now on. Makes it easier to trust people I do business with, who I'll never meet, and I can plan better, know when things are going to happen. For any vendor or business person anywhere, this makes your busines look more professional too.

It's nice to get and receive referrals. It's helpful to get referrals and makes good will, loyalty. I'll make a referral to the sponsors of this BB at this time too. And ask for FedEx shipper if you like to know when your parts are coming.

On a positive note here...

You bet Dennis.

Pep Boys has them. They are Sachs, Stabilus, There is 2 numbers on them. SG314005 & 92515.
If your sister has any problem getting them, let me know and I will pick you up a set and send them to you, shipping will be what it cost me. Nothing more. (Let's see, how much is a plane ticket to Hawaii these days ?)

Know what you mean about the shipping & handling prices vendors charge. I recently bought a gearshift rubber boot & 4 wheel cap thin covers from one of the vendors and the shipping was just as much as the boot cost, over $17.00 from Nevada to Arizona. All of which could have been put in a small box, sent US Postal 1st class, got here in 3 days for less that $5.00. Needless to say, that vendor will not see anymore of my money. Not to mention the fact I was never told about the outragious shipping & handling charges before hand. I discovered it after viewing the charge on my bank account.

It's rediculious what some of them, not all of them, do in the name of being a "Pantera Vendor" Such BS, they really must think we're stupid.

So far and through the years I have found PI, Hall & Wilkinson very fair and honorable with their prices, shipping & handling charges. Those are pretty much the vendors I have decided to stay with unless I really, really, need something they don't have.

Let me know on the other topic how your making out on your clutch problem. Oh, by the way, I lived on Oahu for 2 years in Diamond Head in the 80's. Loved it there, just got to expensive.

So far I have experienced the "price gouging shipping" from 2 vendors. I'll use them again only as a last resort! Maybe we should all start voicing our problems with them using their names for all to see so that we all can learn. Attention vendors, if you monitor these sites, we're not stupid, we're just idiots!

It doesn't do any good, I've tried. Seems a few of the Pantera people think the Vendors walk on water and should be worshiped. But they do have a corner on the market, so who ya gonna call ?

I hear the same thing about European Vendors from friends there that own Pantera's as well. And their prices are even higher for the same parts than we pay here which originally came from there. So go figure.

Funny thing is, when you catch them at it, they cop an additude with you because you call them on it. Goes back to the same BS, "But were Pantera Vendors" etc, etc, etc. Same old you know what, just a different day. That's not to say that Vendors are not entitled to make a profit and a living, but sometimes it's just so obvious they are taking us for a ride for parts, it's rediculious. Then there's the shipping and Handling charges which are just another insult to someone's intellengence with some vendors.

Which is why many of us now have started finding other sources for commen parts from local sources. Not only is the part cheaper, but it's also cheaper to pay the sales tax for the part than it is to have the part shipped and handled.

That's the only down side to owning a Pantera I can see, becasue 99.9% of the real Pantera owners and drivers are wonderfull & caring people. Which is the only reason I continue to own mine other than the fact I enjoy working on and driving my car.

Just wait until you have to repair your ZF....You'll need a bank loan or have to win the lottery to rebuild it. $1200.00 a gear and $300.00 a Sycro wouldn't be any fun to deal with let alone the thought of even needing them. My car would be parked for who knows how long before I could afford buying parts for a ZF. I will probably covert it to a different gearbox or sell the car before I go through the expense of completely rebulding a ZF if the figures of 12 grand are correct I'm hearing from others. That's almost 1/2 of what I paid for the car itself.

Some things will just never change....or as they say, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Hey, but nobody's getting rich, right ?

But then the other side of the coin is, It's not like we're driving mass production cars like a Corvette or Mustangs. You want something special, you pay those special prices. And it is somewhat cheaper than a Ferrai or Lamborghini will ever be, specially maintenence wise for the most part.

And before anyone goes off, that's not to say all the Vendors are like this, there is actually a few honorable ones out there. It just takes time and money to find out who's who.

The Pantera is without a doubt, the best bang for the buck. So I guess in some way, it does balance itself out. Just got to know who to deal with and who you can trust to do the right thing by you, your Pantera and your wallet.



>>Maybe we should all start voicing our problems with them using their names for all to see so that we all can learn<<

I agree Mark, which is why we have mentioned the ones that various of us had honorable dealings with.

I don't see anything wrong with the vendors making an honest profit. . . better yet a better than average profit seeing that they are supporting a small (but loyal) market. I do however view the price gouging shipping as deceptive business practice to turn a profit. I would rather see them be up front and advertise a product at a higher price and ship at the normal rate than to get an incredible shipping bill after the fact. At least I'd respect them for their honesty.
An example of this is buying A-Arm bushings and stainless braided brake flex lines that fit in a small box and weighed very little. Got railed for $48.00 shipping! I send stuff to Arizona to my sister all the time, I know how much it really costs!

I think that we all know that since the Pantera was produced in very limited numbers and has been out of production for years, it will cost us more money to keep and maintain. I accept this fact and burden in order to own and drive such a fantastic car. Vendors, if you're monitoring this subject . . . we're not asking for outrageous deals (at least most of us) All we're asking for is for you to be honest with out and a fair shake. What's in it for you? Loyal customers that will stick with you even when the economy gets bad. Remember its a double edged sword you may be our only suppliers but we're your only customers! In all fairness though, thank you vendors for sticking by us and keeping this fantastic vehicle alive!

Yeah Mark, I think that you're right . . .we should keep the names anonymous. Most of us know the stories anyway.

I just noticed this thread. I normally love reading Veryfasts novels, but in the hope I can be of some help, here are my two cents.

In any business you have to get to know who you are dealing with. Do your research and after just a couple of orders, you'll know who to deal with in the future. Let your suppliers make a profit and learn how to get the best from them. There are plenty of resources for parts and labout to keep our awesome cars running and our never ending passion satisfied. But we, the customer, must take the time to find the best people and best ways to order, ship and install the parts. I've owned my Panteras for 20 years or so and during that time whenever I needed parts I relied on Hall - almost exclusively. If I wanted to chase every little part from a dozen resourses I could save a few bucks. For sure. But I just make one call, usually at the last minute, and then confirm the order and shippng details by email. Hall always has the parts and the info I need to install it. They have my customer info on file and shipping from CA to Eastern Canada takes ONE day - customs and all! When my credit card on file had expired they still shipped the part and sent me an email later asking for my new card number. Sometimes the shipping can be expensive for a small inexpensive part, so I try to order a few things at once. Often I order more than I need. When my own inventory builds up, I simply return the parts I didn't use for credit. I have never gotten a wrong part in 20 years. And I never incurred the expense or disasters because of wrong advice or wrong parts. It has been many years since I have endured any of the anguish Veryfast has indicated. I'm sure most other well known Pantera suppliers are the same. Dave Adler has been a great friend, he sold one of my cars and always advised me on choices usually when there was nothing in it for him. Same with Gary, Marino, Pat Mical and of course the brain trust like Jack DeRyke and many others here on the PI BB.

Don't forget that many of us are guys with more money than brains when it comes to upgrading our dream cars. Make the effort to find out who you can trust, then stop shopping and let them make a living. I actually flew 3,000 miles just to visit Gary Hall. I eventually shipped my cars out there for a major overhaul. What got me and kept me as a customer was not the big sales pitch (which of course I got) but the shelves and aisles of parts in stock and a crew of guys who have done everything more than once.

I also went to see my local customs office and found out how to ship my car back and forth over the border, how to smooth out parts shipping problems and how to import new and replacement "antique car" parts. I have FedEx as my shipper / broker and use UPS as a shipper from the US to Canada.

Life is good. It's only March and I took my car out today - months ahead of every other year in the past 20. I grabbed some tools, my trickle charged battery, shook off the cover, cranked away until the oil pressure hit 80 then pumped the throttle a few times and that lovely roar brought the stupid grin to my face which has been stuck there ever since. Sure there a million things on my to do list. But it gets better and easier every year. Life's to short to burn out on your Pantera.

Thank's Deeb. Everything is back on track in a very nice way. See Brake Upgrade Kit on the Technical Questions and Advice Forum. I'm trying to keep that novel on the topic of doing a brake upgrade kit install, for the few of us who do all these things ourselves. Anyway, I'm in a time compression and called Hall yesterday to order rear axle bearings, I asked for overnight, they like UPS, OK with me, and they arrived this morning. Back to the machinist to get the rear axles pressed back together with the new rotors, hats, axle bearings, and it'll be sorted out in that department of a dozen good years to come.

I called PI Motorsports, but the answering machine picked up. It's like that with us small businesses. Lean tight operations to catch opportunities and make a few bucks. I next called Hall. Big deal, I saved $15.45. But maybe they make enough to go to dinner, for 5 or 10 minutes work. That's all I wanted to do. My machinist had them ready to overnight from Denver, my Pantera vendors get preference for my purchasing dollars. Sometimes it's not even a big thing.

The wheels are at the Boyd's still, mine and a bunch of other dudes, all of us. They'll be done in time for Vegas. The chrome guy's holding up the sway bar shipment. My tiny orders will get processed. I'm learning patience still at this late phase in life.

Things are proceeding along nicely. I had doubt overpower me this time last week is all. It happens to everybody once in a while.....