I ordered the new socket from Snap-on.
Gear wrench makes a good tool but I have broken a few of their wrenchs too.
Gear wrench makes a good tool but I have broken a few of their wrenchs too.
Allen socket bolts are not the best of ideas to use on high tensile loaded applications.
Unfortunately they strip out very easily. That is probably why torx seem to be so common now on new cars?
Chances are that bolt is going to snap off right near where is enters the block.
In that case be prepared to bring the block to a machine shop to have it bored out like Marlin has suggested.
Unfortunately they strip out very easily. That is probably why torx seem to be so common now on new cars?
Chances are that bolt is going to snap off right near where is enters the block.
In that case be prepared to bring the block to a machine shop to have it bored out like Marlin has suggested.
Let’s hope that doesnt happen doug. We should find out tomorrow.
I will be using arp hardware during the rebuild. Is there a kit that most prefer? Leaning towards a stud kit (154-4004)
I will be using arp hardware during the rebuild. Is there a kit that most prefer? Leaning towards a stud kit (154-4004)
Don't misunderstand, I'm not wishing that (any bad luck) on you.
Frozen head bolts are common on the old 2.0 L Fords with the aluminum heads and iron blocks. Not necessarily on a Cleveland block.
The choice of failure areas are not voluntary on your part. They are going to be, 1) the bolt comes loose and all is good (very possible) 2) the bolt snaps just above the top of the block (highly likely)3) the bolt comes loose but takes a part of the block with it (possible but not often seen).
You won't know until you roll the dice. You really need to soak where the bolt goes into the block with penetrating solvent. PB Blaster works well for us here.
Sometimes you need to heat the bolt red hot, then let it cool. Of course that sets the PB Blaster on fire since it is largely kerosene and you would have to cut the head of the bolt off to remove the head, then use a "stud puller" on it.
Frankly, if it doesn't come loose the first couple of shots with the impact wrench, it is a much safer procedure to take the entire mess to a machine shop and let them do it.
At least you won't break the block casting that way but using an end mill to get the broken stud out isn't as simple as it sounds.
You need to do that on a "mill". Once it is all set up, then yes, it's a piece of cake really.
You mill the stud out then you still need to use a tap to get the remainder of the bolt threads out of the block.
The Devil is in the details, i.e., getting it there and setting it up on the machine.
I wish you the best of luck and a simple and easy solution.
Frozen head bolts are common on the old 2.0 L Fords with the aluminum heads and iron blocks. Not necessarily on a Cleveland block.
The choice of failure areas are not voluntary on your part. They are going to be, 1) the bolt comes loose and all is good (very possible) 2) the bolt snaps just above the top of the block (highly likely)3) the bolt comes loose but takes a part of the block with it (possible but not often seen).
You won't know until you roll the dice. You really need to soak where the bolt goes into the block with penetrating solvent. PB Blaster works well for us here.
Sometimes you need to heat the bolt red hot, then let it cool. Of course that sets the PB Blaster on fire since it is largely kerosene and you would have to cut the head of the bolt off to remove the head, then use a "stud puller" on it.
Frankly, if it doesn't come loose the first couple of shots with the impact wrench, it is a much safer procedure to take the entire mess to a machine shop and let them do it.
At least you won't break the block casting that way but using an end mill to get the broken stud out isn't as simple as it sounds.
You need to do that on a "mill". Once it is all set up, then yes, it's a piece of cake really.
You mill the stud out then you still need to use a tap to get the remainder of the bolt threads out of the block.
The Devil is in the details, i.e., getting it there and setting it up on the machine.
I wish you the best of luck and a simple and easy solution.
worst case the bolt breaks at the block i'd use the welding method to get the stub out. the heat generated by the welding causes the thread to let go in a big way. a little low tech but i personally don't know where ATM is a mill big enough to secure a long block?
go slow & heat gently they'll come out
go slow & heat gently they'll come out
As has been said, a really stuck head bolt simply cannot be removed with the engine in the car. Bite the bullet and pull the engine for convenience in working on this difficult problem. It will be easier to cut the bolt head off and remove the 60-lb head over the cut-off bolt shank- maybe with help.
After the head is off, if the shank cannot be removed with the tools at hand and you are familiar with an oxyacetylene welding torch, I'm always successful using the cutting torch adapter as long as the bad fastener is in iron! The method is simple: put the cutting torch directly on the stub bolt until the bolt is glowing bright red. Then while wearing protective clothing, hit the cutting-oxygen lever and watch the molten bolt liquify and shoot out in a fountain of molten steel.
This is why-
-1)- the head must be off to access the bottom of the cut off bolt
-2)- you must wear protective clothing, as the glowing scraps will be at 1200-up degrees F
-3)- the engine must be out of the car and away from it!
Once things cool down, add some threading oil and run a tap thru the empty hole to remove rust and tiny oxidized bits of bolt; the original block threads will be completely unharmed and can be reused.
Many machine shops will use this method in lieu of the more costly setting the whole block up on a big vertical mill, dialing it in precisely and milling the bolt remnants out.
After the head is off, if the shank cannot be removed with the tools at hand and you are familiar with an oxyacetylene welding torch, I'm always successful using the cutting torch adapter as long as the bad fastener is in iron! The method is simple: put the cutting torch directly on the stub bolt until the bolt is glowing bright red. Then while wearing protective clothing, hit the cutting-oxygen lever and watch the molten bolt liquify and shoot out in a fountain of molten steel.
This is why-
-1)- the head must be off to access the bottom of the cut off bolt
-2)- you must wear protective clothing, as the glowing scraps will be at 1200-up degrees F
-3)- the engine must be out of the car and away from it!
Once things cool down, add some threading oil and run a tap thru the empty hole to remove rust and tiny oxidized bits of bolt; the original block threads will be completely unharmed and can be reused.
Many machine shops will use this method in lieu of the more costly setting the whole block up on a big vertical mill, dialing it in precisely and milling the bolt remnants out.
quote:Originally posted by Bosswrench:
As has been said, a really stuck head bolt simply cannot be removed with the engine in the car. Bite the bullet and pull the engine for convenience in working on this difficult problem. .
The picture in post #3 clearly shows the engine out of the car.
i'd rather EDM the stump out than turn it into a molten geyser with a cutting torch. i know there are probably million qualified operators that can do it with one eye closed anyway but my luck i'd get the guy that starts with ...
hold my beer & watch this!
hold my beer & watch this!
We were able to get them out this evening. I started with the impact gun, hitting it with the vibrations, rocking the bolt back and forth with forward and reverse, tapping it with a hammer. That basically resulted in stripping the hex head pattern from the bolt. So I moved to plan B, cut the heads off the bolts and deal with them with the heads off the block. Once the heads were removed from the block we had access to the bolt threads and hosed them down with penetrating oil. After numerous applications of the penetrating oil and somewhat gentle tapping on the bolt they loosened up enough to remove them from the block. By hand. Literally removed the first one bare handed. Vise grips were used on the other but they are out. No trauma to the block or my wallet! Lol
Had this guy in the block in one of the coolant drains. Any ideas what it would be used for?
Had this guy in the block in one of the coolant drains. Any ideas what it would be used for?
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Next step is to have the valve springs checked and the valves checked for leaks. Should be a fun winter reassembling the engine.
quote:Originally posted by tajon:
We were able to get them out this evening.
knock sensor?
Maybe? When I purchases the car it had an old fuel injection system on it that was pretty unreliable. To be honest, I can’t remember if I had to disconnect anything from it when I removed the FI and changed to a carb setup.
Wondering about head gasket choices. Which do you prefer? I was thinking this fel-pro from Summit HS8347pT