Has anyone ever used these valves?

> I kept my closed chamber heads from my old engine and I will need to get them
> rebuilt here someday. I am pretty sure it has the two piece hand grenade
> valves in it still so I know I will need to get new valves, so has anyone
> here used titanium valves before?? Did they work ok? I know they were
> expensive, but did it allow you to use a weaker valve spring? Did it allow
> you to run a higher RPM? Where they noisier? Did they seal ok? Anybody?

I only have experience with them in a drag car where they did increase
RPM (and power) with a hydraulic cam (9000 RPM). The main benefit of
titanium is reduced weight which allows higher RPM before valve float for
the same spring pressure. Alternatively, lower spring pressures can be
used for a given RPM limit. A side benefit may be increased valve spring
life. Titanium is about 40% lighter than steel and has greater strength
per weight than steel, but isn't as strong per volume. However, titanium
retains its strength better as temperature increases. Also, practically
all titanium products use certified aerospace materials, unlike the materials
used in many "mystery" stainless steel valves (all imported these days).
Titanium does not take impact loads as well, so the tips are usually made
of steel (either welded to the stems or pressed-in tips). For the same
reason, the seats and guides should be relatively soft. Cast iron or
beryllium-copper are usually indicated. You don't want something hard like
Stellite seats. The Ford Motorsport high port heads have cast iron seats
and guides which Ford claims are titanium compatible. CV Products Titanium
Valve instructions indicate:

Valve seats should be a soft material such as nodular iron, bronze,
or beryllium-copper, all heat treated to Rc 30 or less.

Any standard valve guide material may be used with a *minimum*
clearance of 0.001" intake and 0.0015" exhaust. Seals may be used,
however some oil must be allowed to enter the guide.

Steel tips or lash caps are recommended for all engine applications.
Steel tipped valves should be faced off square removing approxiomately
0.002" of material. If lash caps are used, they should be flat
parallel and free from tooling marks. Be sure the lash camp does not
contact the retainer or valve keepers.

Valve face may be machined or ground as with other valves. When
grinding, remove small amounts, 0.001" or less, and dress the wheel
often to prevent loading.

All titanium used has been inspected and certified conforming to
the Dept. of Defense Material Specification, Mil-T-9047 of latest
issue.

The builders who claimed to run them successfully were using beryllium-copper
seats. Titanium also tends to gall easily so they need to have coated stems
You also don't lap titanium valves. You use an interference (44/45 or 45/46
degree) seat geometry. Several places sell special coolants or coolant
additives for grinding titanium valves and say it gives a smoother finish.

There are now several OEM (2002-up Infiniti V8s in Q45's and GM in the new
Z06 Vette) that are using titanium valves. They have to meet 100,000 mile
emissions warranties so they must have the bugs worked out. The people to
get the straight scoop from are CV Products. They make Ti valves and seats,
and are distributors for Del West and Ferrea. Their tech people are very
sharp.

If you decide to go with titanium, I have a new set that came with a set
of high port heads I recently purchased that I'd be willing to sell.
The details:

intake valves - 8 Ford Motorsport titanium intake valves, M-6507-D321
(valve is marked MD 321 JH), 2.190" diameter, 0.240" tip
length, 5.270" total length, moly impregnated stems,
hardened steel tip
exhaust valves - 8 Ford Motorsport titanium exhaust valves, M-6507-E321
(valve is marked ME 321 GF), 1.710" diameter, 0.240" tip
length, 5.084" total length, tulip head, moly impregnated
stems, hardened steel tip

Dan Jones

Thanks Dan, those valves you mentioned about selling, would they work with factory closed chamber heads? That is what I have, and I was wondering since they are not aluminum, how well they would work, because aren't those engines you mentioned all aluminum heads? Would I still need to use berillium copper guides with cast iron heads?

> Thanks Dan, those valves you mentioned about selling, would they work with
> factory closed chamber heads? That is what I have, and I was wondering since
> they are not aluminum, how well they would work, because aren't those engines
> you mentioned all aluminum heads? Would I still need to use berillium copper
> guides with cast iron heads?

The guides and seats in cast iron heads are cast iron and relatively soft.
The seats in my A3 heads are also cast iron but I can say from experience
that the seats in A3 heads are harder to cut than Aussie 2V seats. The
valves themselves should be safe but the titanium valves might accelerate
the seat wear. Thomas Thornblum (spelling?) put titanium valves in his
Aussie 2V heads and had the exhaust seats receded rapidly. He had them
rebuilt with harder seats and has not reported any further problems. I've
seen the same thing happen with stainless valves but it may be worse with
titanium.

Dan Jones

Thanks again Dan. I am going to print out what you wrote and take it to whoever rebuilds my heads. No way can I do this myself so I will hand them the instructions and tell them to get cracking on my heads.