Heated rear window - not shown on wiring diagram?

The rear defrost is a factory option, very rare .Off the top I know mine (8MA1244) but the button is green (no logo on it) , also 8MA1266. I will dig-up the others. 

The car at Cartique is 8MA1044, the e-brake handle identifies it as one of the 55 cars finished in Germany. Note it also has the ignition in the steering column.

Hi Denis, thanks for the information! That’s correct, German registered from new until 2020 when it came to the UK.

we’re only German cars equipped with that style of handbrake and ignition switch? That would make sense as I can’t find any other car with this set up. When you say German finished, can you elaborate on that? Would explain why some things seem different to all other Mangustas I’ve seen.

PM sent

Chris, this may be one of the 'take a deep breath' moments, and the good news is that, at a concours, its not like even the Mangusta experts (and I think that is us!) could swear one way or the other...but there are many things here that are not 'usual.' Denis' note of the switch on the steering column automatically id's this car as something out of the normal linearity of things...

  - good question on the heater switch, it doesn't appear in the wiring diagrams but we are all sure that there were some cars made with the switch. As long as your glass had the defrosters, go with it...

- the relay arrangement is not usual...I can only think of 4 relays in the car (the Fiamm Horn relay for the country horn, in the US there was one on the steering column somehow related to the flasher, and there by the fuse box the only (2) relays were the Carello (22.900.000) that are switched on by the key. The addition of the mini-relays is super-smart (if its what I am guessing), since without them you have this rather bad design where so many items go from the battery in the rear of the car to the ignition switch, then back to the fuse box before heading back north to the front of the car (headlights and fan). The addition of the mini-relays is smart, but as well (and oh, hold your ears, this may hurt ) the insulative covers on the terminals was black or green. And marked "Italy." And impossible to find...But there is very little chance that anybody would have re-terminated the whole wiring harness, and if the terminal ends all agree you have a good reason to think they were factory.

  If the black terminal block attached to the blue wire (the one marked "red" ) is marked "Mamut", there is some hope that this was factory wiring. Not to exclude what other brand of terminal block, or even that the wire type appears to be solid-blue (and I just cannot remember other single-color wires), I'd also be curious what people have seen on cars that did have the defroster switch.

- the parking brake switch did show up on the schematic, and we have seen some cars (I'm thinking the Bordinat car) that had the little lamp indicator probably for it. And the same parking brake was used on Lotus, there is a Lucas switched that could have worked...But the brake lamp was really not standard, its one of those "look at that" things border on the 'really happened' side of urban myth.

-  I'd sure think '1044 would have still been made in Italy and have the Ford umbrella style parking brake. I have no idea how the cabling was laid out for the German cars, but assume that they did NOT pass thru the pulley arrangement in the front trunk of the car...If you don't have a pulley and your parking brake is broken, assume its factory

...so the good news, the Mangusta is a mystery ...Don't panic, thanks for asking (!), and none of this needs to hamper anybody who thinks your car is perfect--it just may still be...! (and even, looking at the pictures at Cartique, I'm not sure I see a single thing that looks 'wrong...' it looks remarkably 'as built"--Lee

Although not used the front pulleys for umbrella brake handle are on 8MA1244.

...amazing. Denis, your quote about "closest frame to the door" comment...I was expecting '1044 to be next to my brother's '1046---but in fact, it seems to be a sister to 8ma998 (which is the same wrt the floor brake, 1972 registration, but is 2nd generation dash, and wrong' front turn lights..)--Lee

Thanks guys! I think we’ve the wheels for the umbrella handbrake present.

I agree on the wiring being ‘sub standard’ with regards to the power supply layout! Sadly as this is going concours, it’s needed to be as close to factory as possible. I’ll make everything as good and safe as possible, the car won’t see much use I’d imagine.

Another question - the car also has a German side to the fuse box cover - again, something that was present on German finished cars? I’ll need to have the sticker remade if so.

...thats amazing...I think I'd wear it 'Deutsch-side-out...' The Italian side is normal for a Goose, its basically the same print as a Maserati but w/o the Mas logo (the big gap at the top left).  But I wonder who with a German car has ever looked on the B side of the plate?!

At this stage, I think this car is far enough over the line of  what is 'standard' to be positively, exactly the way it was made...! Lee

I’d be interested to know - do we know of any members on here with one? I’ll definitely be presenting it German side out, it’s all part of the history which the judges get all flustered over!

On a side note, I’m trying to sign up for the De Tomaso registry, and look at Provamo, but I am not getting the confirmation emails, despite checking all inboxes. Do you know if the site is still active?

Hi Chris, have you thought about contacting Roland Jaeckel in Germany?  I think he retired recently and closed his shop but he's still quite active on  things like FB.

IIRC he was involved in all those German assembled cars working for guy who did the deal with A. DeT.  He may even have some details / records on your car.

I think I've told you I had John Haas make me a Mangusta blade fuse box with tell tales and it's slightly bigger than the stock one by around 1/2 inch all round (but I hope a hell of a lot safer and more reliable).  I'm going to make a slightly bigger cover and will then replace the Italian legend onto the bigger cover.  If you get a copy of the Italian cover made which can be printed please let me know as I may try and see if I can scale it up ever so slightly.  I won't know until the cover is made what the original legend looks like!

cheers

Maseratinet has a good price on the fuse box plate, if you scrub off the Maserati logo, voila, its a Goose plate. But Chris's is perfecter...

Maserati Club, Maserati Parts, MIE Corp. MaseratiNet Store - FUSE BOX LEGEND OVERLAY

Ah the cost of the Concours award!!!  
Be careful what you wish for.....

(it's only a very small area to rub off, no-one will notice....)

Chris, sorry, are those both decals? Original is printed onto the aluminum plate directly, but the 'scratch' on the German side seems like a blue-substrate label with silver printing? (as with the italian side)? Lancia used a blue cover (the fuse cover and box itself seems pretty popular for Italian cars) and it could have been that a decal was applied over the aluminum on these last cars...! But yes, MIE has both the cover and the switch decals--you will need to buy 2 sets of the decals and throw half of them away (since you have 2 fans and Ghibli had just one)--Lee

Lee, Italian side is printed, German side is a sticker.

@Chris King posted:

The push button has 2 earth wires to it, then a red wire which is joined to a light blue using an original connector clock. This runs near to the AC unit wiring, through the loom and comes out by the fuse box. Wire is integral to the loom, not been added later on. It has an original connector block on this end, and no wire out of it, so I'm unsure of its purpose.

...didn't see a comment about the light blue wire so thought I'd offer an opinion at least.  With the red wire removed at the switch end, all the large blue wires in the first photo look 100% 'stock'  - - the image highlights the 'doubled' AC power block, and the 'single' connector normally used to power a dealer-installed radio, when fitted.  At least on earlier cars the OTHER end of that light blue wire went directly to fuse 9.  So if that fuse 9 connection was cut and a load was added between it and the fuse supply, 12V would go to the load whenever the orange switch was closed (i.e., grounded).

If somebody was adding rear window resistance heat to a Mangusta, that would be one EASY way to do it.   Unfortunately I have no idea if that was the factory's approach - - need input from the owner of another car with similar origins/manufacture to confirm whether or not the light blue lead is cut & re-connectorized near fuse 9.   But it's definitely a possibility!

here are pics from 8MA1244

Denis, so is the indicator for the defrost (not the brake? esp as the wire colors seems to match).

And even bigger question, is the back of your fuse box tag in Deutsch? Lee

No, cover is standard, outline of fuse sizes sticker.

Denis, that is a perfect picture of the switch, just what I needed! The red light next to it, is that the tell-tale light for the heated rear windows? That's the exact light I have, and I've not seen another on a goose. Thanks!

@nate posted:

...didn't see a comment about the light blue wire so thought I'd offer an opinion at least.  With the red wire removed at the switch end, all the large blue wires in the first photo look 100% 'stock'  - - the image highlights the 'doubled' AC power block, and the 'single' connector normally used to power a dealer-installed radio, when fitted.  At least on earlier cars the OTHER end of that light blue wire went directly to fuse 9.  So if that fuse 9 connection was cut and a load was added between it and the fuse supply, 12V would go to the load whenever the orange switch was closed (i.e., grounded).

If somebody was adding rear window resistance heat to a Mangusta, that would be one EASY way to do it.   Unfortunately I have no idea if that was the factory's approach - - need input from the owner of another car with similar origins/manufacture to confirm whether or not the light blue lead is cut & re-connectorized near fuse 9.   But it's definitely a possibility!

Nate, I'd say the blue wire is original -it's integral to the loom, including running through the PVC sleeving. Having just resleeved the entire loom, there' no way you'd add wires afterwards!

The wire must be a feed for the heated rear window, especially after seeing Denis' photos.

Hi Chris, totally agree that blue wire is original.  While that wire 'normally' connects directly to Fuse 9 (....without the small terminal block....) this is how it COULD be used to power rear window heat, grounding through a dashboard switch.   

Of course power could come from any fuse, not just #9.  Any sign of additional wiring like this?:

Having become curious about 8MA1266 from reading the other string, just saw this in Provomo:

I’d love to access Provomo - sadly I haven’t received a confirmation email, and no reply from the contact email address listed. Shame as I’d like to contribute too!

Nate, There are a dozen cars with heated rear windows.

Hi Chris, I have owned 8MA 1298 in Australia for nearly 20 years.

It is in very good original condition, is RHD, and un-restored.

It has a Heated rear window with the Orange push button switch between the clock and ignition switch.

The picture below shows the back of the switch with the light blue wire, and I assume it is the positive that goes through the loom to the rear below the fuse box.

Then you can see the light blue wire emerging from the loom, into a connector and emerges as the light blue wire on the left that goes up to the heated rear window.

And the last picture shows the Orange Dash switch, to turn it on.

Hope this helps

Terry

So darn interesting...Terry, I assume that (since there is only 1 wire at the terminal block on the engine cover), that in your car the blue wire is the hot output of the switch; and that the red connection at the switch is from the cigarette lighter key (coincidentally, fuse #9! as Nate sees). The only other red wire I see in this area is the output from the ignition switch, but the radio/cigarette lighter are switched by the key thru the carello relays.

  Denis' picture makes sense for the indicator light (the near wire is almost certainly the feed, and I guess the celeste wire behind it forks to the indicator light).

  And the use of the Mamut terminal blocks for everything shouts 'factory...!' Interesting also the use of transparent covers on the terminals, still marked "Italy" but earlier colors were mostly black and 1076 has green covers (!)

btw M!ke and Nate, sure handy to have a colorized wiring diagram