Hey there
So I have a 72- needing total HVAC revamp-
The heater tubes that run through the shifter tunnel are
not in the best shape- I have researched replacement and it sounds like I may
need to pull the engine to remove/replace-
Is this really the only way? Does anyone have any tricks that maybe would work to get them out w/out
Removing the engine?

Also the cable from the dash temp handle Spears to have broken from the lever.
Any thoughts on a repair or do I need to pull the cable. I’m trying to avoid dash removal-

Thanks
Mark
Original Post
Hi
on the tubes...mine looked bad as well. Here my procedure:
1) remove the ruber hoses on both ends
2) get a 3 yard steal cable from any store like home depot etc. I used 5mm steal cabel.
3) bend the ends so they do look like a spider leg set
4) pull them through the pipes ..several times..
5) rinse with fresh water..
6) close the lower end with a plug.. old winde bottle cork
7) fill the pipes with phosor acit - I got a container for 10 USD
8) let it sit for 2 days (temp dependent)
9) clean the phosor out by washing it by rinsing with fresh water
10) use an air drier to dry the intter part of thepipes
11) fill paint into the pipes ...I used Rost on Metal stuff..as it really socks in
12) let the paint in the pipe sit for 10 minutes or so
13) drain the paint by unplugging the lower side cork
14) use a hot air gun to blow through
13) DONE..
(you might do a second paint filling..)

hope you like this..


Matthias
quote:
Also the cable from the dash temp handle Spears to have broken from the lever.
Any thoughts on a repair or do I need to pull the cable. I’m trying to avoid dash removal-


Well this is more tricky..as hard to fiddle a NEW steal wire (1mm) in as the end at the levers (dash side are bend in an S shape).
Think you need to remove the lever set (3 levers at dash) by crawling in. Need to open the kick boards at least on pass side. Nast job. Then you want to replace all the 3 wirs including the (what I call the bike wire harnes).
The lower end then is the side for fixture as the dash side ist fixed by the S shape end..
hope this helps..not a nice job...

Matthias
Hey Thanks for input!!
Good ideas.
The issue is that the end of one tubes is pretty beat up to the point where I'm not sure there's enough good material on the end to connect too. Was thinking about just trying to move it back through the shift tunnel an inch and then try the cleaning methods.

Its possible replacement is eminent..Any thoughts on replacement?
Thanks
Quite a few years ago, someone bought a Pantera with the heater disconnected. When the new owner hooked up the hoses, it was found that some of the screws that hold the console down had been drilled into the heater pipe instead of into the floor. Big leak! The consensus at that time was to CUT the mild steel OEM pipe for easier removal & make a permanent two-piece replacement made of copper or ss. And be really careful in redrilling the console hold-down screws!

At most, you'll need to remove both seats so as to get at the console hold-down screws, both halves of the console, the rear upholstering panel & access door, and maybe the heater controls in the dash. But the powertrain can stay. And remember, to better route the heater hoses, use copper sweat-solder 90 degree fittings instead of wasting time trying to find molded 90 degree hoses, Which are usually weak spots anyway.
I did something different in my car. Instead of individual lines running all the way to the engine I tapped into the flow under the front. I welded together some stainless to make an exchange. One side takes the direct flow of water in. The other siphons the flow out. Makes for much shorter lines to the heater and less plumbing:






Aftermarket servo heater valve:

quote:
Originally posted by lurker:
Hey there
So I have a 72- needing total HVAC revamp-
The heater tubes that run through the shifter tunnel are
not in the best shape- I have researched replacement and it sounds like I may
need to pull the engine to remove/replace-
Is this really the only way? Does anyone have any tricks that maybe would work to get them out w/out
Removing the engine?

Also the cable from the dash temp handle Spears to have broken from the lever.
Any thoughts on a repair or do I need to pull the cable. I’m trying to avoid dash removal-

Thanks
Mark


I found that the hoses weren't connected on the car I bought. My tubes appeared to be OK but I couldn't figure out a reasonable way to connect hoses at the engine ends due to clearance issues plus the stock valve under the dash was frozen shut. I decided to abandon the original tubes. I ran hoses down the passenger side of the tunnel to the engine. I cut a hole in the firewall for them to pass thru. For the valve, I bought a NAPA #BK6601141 heater valve. I switched the bracket to the other side of the valve and made a few adapting pieces so the stock lever operates the valve correctly. I hooked this up with 5/8 hoses to the heater pipes, installing so that the flow direction was correct from the water pump pressure outlet fitting. I used a tube adapter on the flare nut fitting that originally had the stock heater valve.

The hoses running down the passenger side of the tunnel fit behind the console cover along with my AC hoses. I flattened the brackets that the console pieces are supposed to be screwed to. They are unnecessary. Sure was easier than the alternative of trying to keep the stock routing.

Norm
I forgot to mention that I cut off some of the parking brake bracket front corner to make more clearance between the hoses and the seat. I tried to attach a picture but the size restrictions are much too small on this format. Send me an email at normandjanet@gmail.com and I will send pictures the easy way
Norm
Great discussion! The mods update this ancient topic since 1971 when the problem was first noticed. NOTE: to open-track a Pantera in the U.S, one STILL needs TWO MANUAL shut-off valves- one for each heater hose; electric shut-off valve(s) will not pass Tech. This is because the Tech Inspector usually has no motivation or authority to trace out your added wiring, verify the valves and switch work, climb under your car to check hose routings, etc. The second manual valve is so the Tech Inspector is sure the water flow is completely shut off without leaving the core pressurized. Again, he is usually not motivated to have you pull the upholstery panel, trace out the hose routing and verify your single shut-off valve is actually in the pressure line, not in the return- which would leave the stuff under the dash at system pressure.

The second reason for adding shut-off valves is, of course for your personal safety: to keep from bursting a heater hose under the dash at high rpms. This has scalded & scarred the ankles & lower legs of many drivers and a few passengers, while instantly fogging up the windshield- usually at high speed. In updating Pantera water hoses, the short heater hoses under the dash are consistently forgotten, and they do age dangerously.

On the negative side, shutting off water flow thru the heater core for a decade or so sometimes causes a chemical reaction between anti-freeze and the copper heater core, such that when an old valve is finally turned on for some reason, either the heater is plugged, or awful brown goo oozes out of the unused lines and if not noticed, heads for your engine.... A GOOD idea is to cycle your shut-off valves now & then to flush the system. And shutting off hot water to the heater also shuts off the defrosters, which are necessary now 'n then even in sunny California or Florida.
My heater tubes were corroded, so I removed them without removing the engine, and replaced them with a pair of rubber tubes.

the metal tubes are held in place by spot welds, which are easy to remove, then when the tubes are disconnected from the body shell you can withdraw them rear wards, then cut through the tube, and continue the process, I can't post a pic but if you let me have an email address I could send you pics, Best Peter
M Jack ... I see your valve pics but when I checked my car the heater hoses do not run in that location so I assume you did some rerouting before installing the two valves. Without rerouting I assume one has to go behind the firewall to install the valves (as well as cycle them now and then). And is it two valves or just one?
Most I have seen, including my shut off valves are located on the right lower side of the car where the hoses cross the chassis. If you orient them correctly it's fairly easy to reach under the car and turn them off in summer on in winter.
Marlin has a good point, but I only open or close these in advance, on the floor of my nice clean garage. The advantage to these is that is was easy to tie-wrap them to existing structure... These valves are heavy!

I also have a "recirculation" valve above these - controlled by the heater cable.

You can read about it in a POCA 2015/2016 newsletter article.

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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Fenlon:
My heater tubes were corroded, so I removed them without removing the engine, and replaced them with a pair of rubber tubes.

the metal tubes are held in place by spot welds, which are easy to remove, then when the tubes are disconnected from the body shell you can withdraw them rear wards, then cut through the tube, and continue the process, I can't post a pic but if you let me have an email address I could send you pics, Best Peter


I'd like to see the pictures. Please send to normandjanet@gmail.com.
Thanks
Norm
Peter gave me his tips, but I'm still struggling with these tubes.

How do you get them loose, and can you slide them back through the console with the bend on the end of the pipe?

What I'm really worried about is getting new pipes to go up there, with the bend on the end of them.

I have not been able to see exactly where the bracket and spot welds are to restrain the tubes.

Thanks -

Rocky
Thanks, Steve...

* * * UPDATE = GOT IT * * *

What a b****h. Had to cut the pipes in the center. Had to pull up the console, and front guage valence. Had to pull out the shifter assembly.

I got the front bracket loose.

Still have to knock that rear bracket loose.

******************************************

Your post was helpful. It's tough to get to the back one.

What a job to get these out!

Why did I ever decide to do this project?

Thanks again, though.
Will do, Steve. Hope to get it posted up pretty soon.

Given my experience, you may want to consider some sort of metal "slip joint" with a hose over it.

I personally am concerned that the stock pipes can be fed through all the way to the front from the rear.... especially with the bends in them...

We shall see!

Rocky

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