HOT START PROBLEM

I lived with the identical problem for years. I even planned every Pantera outing to give me enough wait time to cool down before leaving.

After trying everything - new ignition, alternator, battery, battery cables, etc., finally a new high torque starter solved the problem. I would suggest the Hall type alternator and starter. I guarantee it solves your problem.

Certainly could be starter, ground, battery, etc.. however, is the timing properly set, and is the vacuum advance diaphram hooked to the carb's ported vacuum or straight manifold vacuum? Good luck.. ,

Hot engines are harder to start than cold engines.

Check each connection of the battery cabling between the battery post & the lug on the starter motor. If you have a volt meter, check the voltage drop across the starter relay when cranking the motor (there should be very little voltage drop across the relay). Check the engine block ground cable at both ends. Check the battery ground cable also at both ends.

In other words, make sure your starter is cranking a max power before you go chasing a motor problem.

your friend on the DTBB

RMC,

you had 3 responses within 19 minutes of posting!

Is the DTBB the hip place for Pantera info, or what?!

Bitchen!

Part of the problem is Pantera specific. Your starter is practicaly resting on a header tube. This keeps the starter motor hot and a hot electric motor is less efficient. I put a reflective insulation heat shield over my starter and it did help, but did not completely solve the problem. Also higher compresion engines are more difficult to spin.

I had a problem similar with a Corvette. When I turned the key hot ...nothing..not even a click. I could run a positive directly to the starter and it would crank. I finally replaced the wire from the switch to the starter. The old wire was stiff...they say as current is pulled through the wire it builds heat and eventually the molicules in the copper are rearraged and will not let the current pass. 30 year old wires can be worn out. I realize your have a dragging problem and I would look at the starter after checking connections. 12 volts needs a clean path. TRY THIS! Next time it does it...tap the starter with a hammer, if it cranks, that should tell you your starter brushes or bushings are at fault.

quote:

Originally posted by george pence:
you had 3 responses within 19 minutes of posting!

Sounds like early stage addiction. Do any of you guys work for a living?

Conventional wisdom over the years for this very common problem is adding another ground from the engine and/or the hi torque starter.

Gotta go. I have to check Ebay to see if there is anything new since I last checked earlier this morning.

Jeff
6559

I'll second what Deeb said. I even had my original hi-torque starter rebuilt locally and still had the problem until I replaced it. No problems since.

I also had the exact same problem. Replaced my starter with a high torque unit and never had the problem again...

I can't believe no one has mentioned this.
Try changing your starter!

In my case, it seemed to be the ground cable from the trans to the chassis. I had a new battery and a new high torque starter and still had the hot start problem. When I put the new engine in, (with higher compression), I installed a new ground cable, no problems anymore.
Art

I agree the new hi torque mini starters are bitchen. But from a mechanics point of view, you must insure the cabling, connections, starter relay, etc are in good shape first, and not the source of the starting problem, because if they are, as Art found out, the new mini starter will not resolve the problem.

your friend on the DTBB

...and them little starters are real expensive too. I know cause I bought one. I love my new starter, don't get me wrong, but imagine how you would feel if after you got her all hooked up it still wouldn't start hot because you had a bad ground cable.

I just replaced the starter with the HI Torque and problem solved ..........BUT ....... beware they tell me it either needs to be rewired or live with the problem of it staying engaged for 1 second after the motor starts. I checked its the right part # for the car.. counted teeth on the flywheel. I dont like the sound of the starter staying engaged so its coming out as soon as I can find an alternate solution.

Ron,

doesn't your new starter have a built in starting relay / solenoid, like a Chevy? So the battery cable can go directly to the starter, bypassing the Ford starter relay? And the small wire controlling the Ford starter relay can be rewired to the new starter?

your friend on the DTBB

George,

I was hoping not to have to alter #9138,

but I will if I have to.

So the stock solenoid gets eliminated ?

There are more then just one wire going to it.

You have to two battery cables, the small wire and I think another from the alternator ?

I have to jsut get a new stock starter maybe rebuilt as a hi torque ... I didnt want to start rewiring the car.

Why build a Ford Starter and have to rewire the car.

Thanks for your help.

Ron

Ron,

here's the simplest way to accomplish this revision, without going crazy on the wiring harness.

(1) please disconnect the battery first
(2) Remove the starter cable from the starter relay.
(3) Re-attach the starter cable to the opposite side of the starter relay, on the same lug as the battery cable.
(4) install a ring terminal on the small wire connected to the starter relay, that controls the relay (if there isn't a ring terminal already there). This wire is sourced from the ignition switch on the steering column. (the other small wire connects between the starter relay and the ignition coil)
(5) Land a new wire, with ring terminals on both ends, between the starter relay and the new starter's solenoid. This wire will land on the same stud of the starter relay as the other wire with the ring terminal. Secure both wires to that small stud with a nut & washer.
(6) make sure the new starter doesn't have a jumper wire between the battery connection and the solenoid terminal, if so, remove it!
(7) reconnect your battery
(8) Rock and Roll!

Note: the small wire between the starter relay and the ignition coil remains functional when wired this way. That wire supplies full battery voltage to the coil when cranking the motor.

your friend on the DTBB

Your the best.

Thanks

Ron

Hey, I just want to thank all of you for your comments. Tommorro she's going in to the shop to get her solved and I'll let you know the result. Since I've already got the high torque starter and new battery, my guess is a bad ground but I'll check timing, vacuum advance, alternator etc.. Thanks again, and yes this is a great forum!