How big a wheel tyre combo can I put on a std body pantera ?

335-35-17 is a common size on stock body Pantera

Not much room to go wider than that

11" Rear and 9" front widths are common for stock bodied Pantera's. The 11" wide rim would be the minium required for the 335/35 tire. On my '74 I have that exctly that with 245/40's on the front rims. I think you can go to a 255 width front, but they'll likely scrub the inner fender on tight lock.

Of all importance here is 'offset' a subjst which has been discussed numerous times on the board and you can do a search if you need more on that. Buying from a Pantera vendor will get you some nice wheels designed for a Pantera with correct 'offsets'.

Thanks, any Vendors that you guys reccomend ?
I have looked at PIM, and emailed them. but am unsure of others.
The fronts I can keep normal width, as my steering arms are not that big !!
But I want the rear of the car to look as fat as possible !!
I want the guy behind me to die of envy !! It's your fault Julian !! ( Joules5) i see you avaitar and I die of envy !!

You can fit 19X14 under the back

If you go with 22s all the way around you’ll be able to get it up out of the weeds!

Mike

19 x 14's sounds awesome, but I can't get them that wide in the series I want.
I think I will go 20 x 8.5 and 20 x 10 with 235/30/20 and 315/25/20
I am undecided on rim style, would appreciate anyone's opinion here.
either
http://www.billetwheel.com/cgi/wheels.cgi?cmd=show_imag...a_Series&img=10&tn=1
or
http://www.billetwheel.com/cgi/wheels.cgi?cmd=show_imag...a_Series&img=24&tn=1
keep in mind the car is black, and I will detail the brake suspension setup if required.

Your first choice of rim is similar to these on Chris Darling's car.
I forget the exact size, but I believe they're 18s..

Josh

315/25R20?

No tires in that size come up in a Tire Rack search. 305/25R20 and 325/25R20 are available, the 325's are what I installed on 6018. A 10" wheel is too narrow. The wheel width specs for the 305/25 tire are 10.5" to 11.5". The wheel width specs for the 325/25 tire are 11.5" to 12.5".

FYI, the 325/25R20 tire has the same revs per mile rating as the oem tires, which maintains the accuracy of the speedo, and the stock gearing.

The 235/30R20 you propose for the front of the car is too large in outside diameter, 25.7". The stock tire in front was 25", the larger tire will look wrong in the wheel well. My car has 18" wheels in front, which dramatically emphasizes the fact that the front tires are smaller than the rears.

In designing the wheel and tire combination I worked with a gentleman who has specified and assembled numerous wheel and tire packages for Panteras, he is a former Kinesis employee. I had intended to use a 235/35R18 front tire, but he advised me to run the slightly larger 245/35R18. He said the Pantera needs every bit of rubber up front to help it stick in the corners.

http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/18966.pdf

These were they guys I was getting the rears from, they did say that they would fit on a 10" rim, but that is the absolute minimun. Mind you I will NOT be doing any high speed driving, this will solely be a cruise car.
I am not a fan of different dia wheels, but now you have me thinking !The 20's up front will only be 3/8 "taller per radius, 3/4 inch over all. Now I am all confused !! anyone with pics of 20's on the front ??

What is the steering like with the 245/35/18's on the front ?
i notice they go down to 215 / 35/18
or a 225/35 /19 .
oh I am so confused now !!
Help me please, I need some extra guidance !!
I do agree the backs look big, and that is what I want. and yes the fronts do make the backs look bigger.

Michelin PS2's, some of the best
235/40/17 in frt with a 8" wide rim, 5 3/8" backset,
335/35/17 on the back with a 11" wide rim, 6 5/8" backset,
No rubs, no mods & enough rubber to absorb healthy bumps on the road without bending the rims.

Mark

13 1/2" across treads.

One more. hope it helps.

quote:

Originally posted by v8capri:
...What is the steering like with the 245/35/18's on the front...

The car steers easily once under motion, but it takes a good tug on the steering wheel when its sitting still, like in a parking lot. A 235 section tire won't be noticeably easier.

I agree with sick cat, the Michelin PS2's apppear to be a great tire, but I haven't had the opportunity to put much time on mine, YET!

quote:

... I am so confused now ...

Wheel and Tire 101

The wheel wells of the narrow body Pantera were designed with 25" diameter tires in the front (185/70R15 = 25.2" OD), 27" diameter tires in the rear (215/70R15 = 26.9" OD). These are the tire diameters that will look best on the car. Admittedly it can be difficult when sizing tires for a larger wheel to find tires of those exact diameters, so it may be necessary to stray from the 25"/27" oem sizing. When necessary to do so, it is best to use a smaller OD tire, not a larger one, because the smaller tire looks better in relation to the wheel well opening, but more importantly the smaller tire lowers the car, which improves handling. The taller tire raises the car to the detriment of handling.

One aspect I noticed about the tires you proposed to install on your car, 235/30R20 and 315/25R20, the rear tires are 26.2" OD and the front tires are 25.7" OD. The rear tires are 0.7" smaller than the oem tire OD, the front tires are 0.5" larger than the oem tire OD. This will result in pointing the nose of the car further into the air, giving the car more of a nose up attitude than what it already has, which is just the opposite of what you should be doing from the standpoint of aerodynamics. Aesthetically most owners prefer to lower the nose of the Pantera in relation to the rear of the car, the consensus is the Pantera looks better sitting level or with a nose down attitude. Lowering the nose of the car also reduces the front end lift the car has at high speeds.

Considering the above, the tires you purchse for your narrow body Pantera should be 24" - 25" OD for the front and 26" - 27" OD for the rear. To maintain the small front tire/large back tire look, and the relationship of front to rear height, the front tire should be 1 1/2" to 2" smaller in OD than the back tire.

In sizing wheels, the wheel width should be at least as wide as the tread width (not the section width). If a certain tire has a wheel width spec of 10" to 12", you can assume the tire tread is mid-way between those measurements, or 11" in this example. Therefore the wheel widths you would choose for that tire would fall between 11" to 12" (12" in this example being the maximum recommended width).

When selecting tires, it is important to use the same make AND model tire front and back. Different model tires, even from the same manufacturer, will have different rubber compounds, different tread designs, different carcass designs; therefore installing different model tires front to back will make the front to back handling bias of the car unpredictable, possibly even dangerous.

Since the tires are different widths and diameters front to back, Pantera wheels & tires cannot be rotated like those of a normal car, therefore there is no disadvantage to using different diameter wheels front to back. It is a very common practice on today's modern sports & exotic cars. Remember, the wheel wells of the narrow body Pantera were designed this way intentionally, to give the car the look of a powerful rear section. Using wheels that are 1" or 2" smaller OD in the front emphasizes this. Everybody seems to like the look of Panteras with wheels sized this way, such as Laslo Antal's new Group 4 replica or Mike Daileys beautiful red pre-L.

Another consideration are your brake rotors, the large 20" wheels make small brake rotors look out of place on the car. Especially up front. My car has Willwood brakes with 12.75" rotors, the 18" front wheels make my rotors look small (they looked OK with 17" wheels). Its obvious I am going to have to upgrade to 14" rotors in the future.

Since I was using wheels that were 2" different in diameter, I intended to utilize tires that had the same sidewall height. The 235/35R18 and 325/25R20 were a perfect combination from that perspective. Upon the advice of the gentleman who assisted me in designing this tire wheel package, I utilized the slightly larger 245/35R18 front tire. I am unhappy with the results and plan to purchase 235/35 tires the first time I have to replace the front tires. It is just barely noticeable, most people don't notice it unless I point it out, but it bothers the heck out of me. The sidewalls of the front tires are 0.14" taller than the sidewalls of the rear tires, that may seem like a small amount, but it is noticable with the eye.

cowboy from hell

Stock Arrivas; 24.75 front and 26.5 back.

Mike

Thank you very much for the advise, it is much appreciated. Yes I will now change to 18's on the front with the 235/40/18's as you suggested.
I really would have liked to go wide onthe back, but the next rim size is 20 x 15's and while that pic of 19 x 14's on this post look awesome, i don't know if I can get a tyre to fit.
I did notice that pirelli make a 345 / 25/20 but I am not sure if that is wide enough or a 15" rim. plus that will cost a lot more, but will it look better ?? I really want the car to look as awesome, and fat from the rear.

the 325/25R20 Michelin barely fits in my wheel wells, I had to roll a portion of the wheel well lip in the rear, because the body of the Pantera tapers towards the rear of the car. The tires just clear the inside of the wheel well and just misses rubbing on the corner of the muffler. It looks to me that the wheel well is maxed out, no room left for any more tire. The tires are mounted on 12" wide wheels (max wheel width spec for the tires was 12 1/2").

Ohthat silver pantera with the 20's on the back looks so awesome !!
This is what I think I will do, sorry for all the confusion, and thanks for all your help.
18 x 8 onthe front either 215/35/18 or 225/35/18 tires, 23.9 inch and 24.3 inch dia.
and 20 x 10 with 315 / 25/20 26.3 inch dia on the back.
This will give me the same profile front and back. with the 225's on the front it will be identical, 215, slightly lower on the front.
I don't do any high speed driving, if you do over 78 mph on the freeway here you loose your license. according to the tyre guys the 215 will sit on the 8" rim ok, the Toyo site even suggests it.

Back spacing 4.75 for the front , and 6.0 to the outer edge on the back.
How does that sound ?? I promise I will post pics when it is all done !!

PC,

I like the 225/35R18 and 315/25R20 combination, its obvious you understood the concepts. I understand why you have chosen the narrow back wheel, but I really don't like their 10" width. They should be at least 11" wide with the back tires you have chosen.

The backspacing of my 9" wide front wheels is 5 3/4", to center your front tire the same as mine, your 8" wide wheel would need a backspacing of 5 1/4". Backspacing the front wheel only 4 3/4" will move the tire center 1/2" outboard in relation to mine. My front tires have about 1/4" outboard clearance, and your tires are about 3/4" narrower than mine, so I estimate you could center your wheels 5/8" further outboard at the most, but that's pushing the limit. A little more conservative backspacing would be 5" even.

I recommend the backspacing for your 10" back wheels to be 5 3/4" (my 12" back wheels have 6 3/4" back spacing). 5 3/4" backspacing should center your tire identically to mine. Remember, I had to roll the fender lip a bit, but your slightly narrower tire may not require that. 6" backspacing will move your tire 1/4" inboard, although this would alleviate any chance of the tire rubbing on the fender lip, it may rub the inner wheel well, your tire is not that much narrower than mine. However, if 6" back spacing is your nearest choice with these wheels, go for it! We're only talking about 1/4" difference. The tire cross section is 10 mm less, you might get away with it.

You'll be delighted with the looks, can't wait to see it myself.

cowboy from hell