I just read Bill Mason's diaries...

Which issues had the story?

My hypothesis on the weight question is heavier bumpers, chassis reinforcement, and stronger rear ZF mounts.

Summer, fall and winter 2000. Bill claims that the L-models were about 3500 lbs, which I'm left scratching my head about.

My car is a late '71 with some pieces from a '74, but I can't imagine how a '74 would weigh 300 to 400 lbs more than the others.

When I installed 4744's Hall Pantera hood inserts in June of 1980, I'm quite sure I remember covering a Bill Stroppe sticker. I remember a yellow circle with a black outline and "Bill Stroppe Racing" on it. I also remember being hesitant about covering it up at the time. But what I don't remember is which of those 5 panels it was under, and I don't want to play "scratcher" to try to find it again! Possibly someone else still has theirs exposed and can post up a photo. It was my understanding that many early western US Panteras went through his shops for updates, and had received these stickers as a mark of completion of these updates.

http://www.ormhof.com/inductees/Bill-Stroppe.htm

As for the "lard"...I'm sure the smog pump and associated plumbing accounts for some of it as well.

The Panteras that entered north america on the west coast went through Stroppe's shop. I don't know if Long Beach was the only port of entry, or if they arrived on the east coast as well. It would seem illogical to me to take 'em through the Panama canal if they didn't need to. But I've never heard of any shop on the east coast doing the inspection and prep work that Stroppe did.

I had a habit of driving by his shop on Signal Hill to see the new arrivals every once in a while.

Motor Trend lists the curb weight of the L model as 3580 pounds, about 400 more than a push button. That can't all be explained by the bumpers. There certainly wasn't any extra sound deadening material. The 351C never had a smog pump, the only addition to the later 351C's that added any weight at all was the little cast aluminum EGR plate below the carburetor.

Were you aware the 351C's installed in silver Panteras had 100 additional horsepower?

-G

quote:

Were you aware the 351C's installed in silver Panteras had 100 additional horsepower?

Sounds like a fishing tale to me...

I'm not the only one who's surprised at the weight statement for L-models... Anyone have some actual weight data for us? Looking at my car, the thing is so small that I can't imagine it weighing 3500 lbs. 3500 lbs is the latest (overweight) Mustang territory.

I just weighed my car and it weighs 2650. Although my car is far from stock...

quote:

Posted April 24, 2011 05:44 PM Hide Post
I just weighed my car and it weighs 2650. Although my car is far from stock...

Wow, that is light! Is the car completely gutted? Did the motor swap save that much? What year is your car?
Will

Ive got an original stroppe sticker somewhere in my pantera parts depo. when I find it i will post a picture. if i remember right its a circle with orange and black writing.thanks, mike mayberry

The car is a 73. The GVWR is 3602 which puts the weight of the vehicle around 3200. So I need to account for a savings of ~550 lbs.

Here is what I could think of so far...

New motor complete: 410 lbs - savings ???
New lightweight AC compressor - savings ???
Carbon Fiber Decklid - savings ???
Removed front bumper - 26lbs removed
Aluminum Shocks - 34lbs removed
Wilwood front brakes - 18lbs removed
Aluminum Radiator - savings ???
Stock AC Evaporator/Shroud/Fan removed - savings ???
Trunk Insert not used - savings ???
Lightweight Starter - savings ???

I think that is about right as I guesstimate the savings. A stock Cleveland from Air Cleaner to Pan including headers must be in the 700lbs range.

just found the stroppe sticker. its an inch and a half in diameter. the top half is blue and the bottom half is orange with stroppes name dividing the two colors.not sure how to post pics. thanks, mike mayberry

Mike

would you be able to email a copy of the picture to me? If so, I can post the picture for you.

-G

quote:

A stock Cleveland from Air Cleaner to Pan including headers must be in the 700lbs range.

Scott,

I think it's more like about 570 lbs. http://www.tmeyerinc.com/engineweight.html

No wonder our cars are so fast- even 3000 lbs is light.

Still looking for answers to my first post.

George, send me your email address to mikedmayberry@hotmail.com and I will shoot you a picture of the decal. thanks, mike

Here's a picture of the Stroppe decal from Mike

-G

I wonder where Mr. Mason is today or if he is even alive. When he wrote his diary for Pantera International, he would bring portions of the manuscript to me to go over. He was a fascinating person and crazy about Panteras. I once spoke with a gentleman who went for a test drive with Bill and it scared him nearly to death. I had a similar experience, when I bought my first Pantera in 1974 from a LM dealer, Gustafson in Long Beach, the salesman took me for a test ride.
The driver asked me, "have you ever ridden in a car, flat-out in 5th gear?". I told him no and I didn't intend to, at least with him behind the wheel. In any event, he ignored my comment and was winding the crap out of the Pantera. The shifter was clicking through the now famliar ZF shift gate as the 351 gathered up steam. It was a new experience for me. At that point Linda and I owned a 1970 Challenger 440 4-BBL which was damn fast but not like a Pantera by any means.
As the Ricky Racer/salesman was trying to impress me, in the distance, I could see a traffic signal facing us phasing to amber and the moron was still flat out, I could also see cars awaiting the green light at the intersection. In my mind, I could not see how we could clear that intersection on a yellow light. There was simply no time to stop either and the Pantera was still eating up the tarmac. In any event, we barely made it through the intersection on the signal clearance phase, (I think it was Willow and Lakewood Boulevard in Long Beach.) The salesman was all proud of himself as he drove me back to the dealership. I was really torqued because at 130+ MPH, any collision would have been unsurvivable. I told him I thought what he did was insane and unforgivable. In the back of mind, I knew I had to have a Pantera................

Hey, I know this thread is over a year old, but I was going through some of my Dad's old stuff yesterday and I found some really interesting stuff about the pantera and work he did with it. So, it got me googling. I found this thread and thought I would satisfy your curiosity. Bill Mason passed away in July of 2000. The Pantera was his most favorite thing and never stopped talking about it. I wish he would have known about this community, he would have loved it!

Hello BillsDaughter, and welcome!

Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to find this forum and to post. If you are interested in your father's legacy, this is a great place to hang out and meet lots of people who share his passion. I know you will find us to be very friendly, fun and informative.

You dad was a great and very noteworthy figure in the history of the Pantera, and it will be a pleasure for all of us to have the second generation participating here.

I expect many of us here have either stories or memorabilia pertaining to your father, and so I hope your having posted will be rewarded.

Thank you Peter H.! I look forward to finding out more about this part of his life. By the time I got to the age to understand what was happening, he wasn't working with the Pantera anymore. I look forward to hearing more about it. I have some things that might be interesting for nostalgia, I will see if i can post them.

BillsDaughter,

Welcome! We would love to see some nostalgic stuff. There is also an email forum for POCA (Pantera Owners Club of America) that is frequented by more Pantera owners, and they would probably love to see what you have as well.

Corey

quote:

Originally posted by Corey Price:

quote:

A stock Cleveland from Air Cleaner to Pan including headers must be in the 700lbs range.

Scott,

I think it's more like about 570 lbs.
http://www.tmeyerinc.com/engineweight.html

No wonder our cars are so fast- even 3000 lbs is light.

Still looking for answers to my first post.

A 289 Ford in a Shelby is 450. Put aluminum heads and intake on the C and you are right there.

For a v8 with displacement, that is not heavy.

You can get the car down to around 2800 with not too much trouble. That's around what the Mark II (427 GT40s) raced at.

What I am wondering is what the factory lightweight chassis cars weighed in at?

You'd have to punch a lot of holes in the chassis to matter and the aluminum skins were mounted on steel spiders and frames.

So what did that save, maybe 150 pounds?

Interesting that they seemed to run on iron blocks and the aluminum C blocks already existed having been cast largely in '68 for Fords racing program.

Gapp & Rousch had them as well as Dyno Don Nicholson. Why not DT?

I don't think DT's race program was well run at all? How could they bitch about lack of race support from Ford, then go off screaming about don't tell us what to do?

quote:

Originally posted by BillsDaughter:
Thank you Peter H.! I look forward to finding out more about this part of his life. By the time I got to the age to understand what was happening, he wasn't working with the Pantera anymore. I look forward to hearing more about it. I have some things that might be interesting for nostalgia, I will see if i can post them.

Welcome BillsDaughter! Mighty cool to have you on here. Just sent you a PM.

We're all nuts on this board, so anything Pantera-related is 'good' to us! Post or share as you see fit.