Installing new brake rotors F&R

If you still have stock brakes that means the rotors are mounted inboard of the hubs and you will have to pull the hubs off and press out the studs to get the rotors off. That means pulling the rear uprights and taking the stub axles out.

Yes, that is the Uggly job with the big spanner on the rear axle nut.

I shipped my uprights to a vendor and had it done. I had the taper rear wheel bearing revision done at the same time. Now my rotor hats mount on the outboard side of the hubs.

Jim, your way is far less expensive than a side trip to the emrgency room! Thanks for the tip.

I'm wanting to order some Halibrand rims, which require providing measurements for wheel offsets. So, if my original brake rotors come off and new ones go on, is that going to leave more room for offset, or less?

Is it a good idea to do the brake rotors first? Like before ordering wheels?

I really hate to think this issue could cause me to have to part with some after market one-off rims at a later time if the project gets too costly to complete all at once...

The aftermarket hats are like having a 1/4" spacer behind the wheel. It should not be a problem unless you are pushing the clearances with some really big wheels.

Do you have a stock body or wide body? I just measured for set of 16 X 8 and 17 X 11.

If you are quick about it, you could still get in on that group discount for Kodiak wheels.

Jim,
Can you please clarify about the "rotors mounted inboard of the hubs" vrs. "Now my rotor hats mount on the outboard side of the hubs." and elboratre a bit more on the taper wheel bearing revision.
Thank you,
Cliff

On most modern cars the rotors are between the wheel and the hub(outboard side of hub). In the original assembly of our Panteras, the wheel goes against the face of the hub and the rotor is behind the hub. You have to take the hub off and press the studs out to get the rotor off.

The rear wheel bearing thing is a completely different problem. There has been much discussion of it in the past both on this forum and on the deTomaso list. Basicly, the original stub axles are soft and machined slightly undersize so the original bearings tend to rock and fret the axles and then the axles break. The simplest fix is to get aftermarket billet axles from one of the vendors. The material is better and the press fit is better than original.

There are a number of different designs that have been used. I think a couple of people have used double row angular contact bearings, like Volkswagon uses in some of their front wheel drives. I have Dennis Quella's (Pantera Performance Center) tapered wheel bearings.

It has been a couple of years since I had this done. I do not remember all the details of the various revisions. Try searching for rear wheel bearings and see what you find.

I am not sure what I said wrong, but my last post will have to be approved by the forum moderator before it will be displayed. Sorry for the delay

What's a two-stage brake booster? Anybody know how they perform, before and after the upgrade?

I'm putting in residual pressure valves when the project gets going. They are 2 psi Wilwood units and I expect quicker pedal response and shorter pedal travel. It's not because the master cylinder is below the calipers. 2 psi is not enough to cause the brake pads to drag at all and cause any loss of horsepower or heat build up. Right? Please tell me now, because I don't have to put them in, but the idea seems good, they are $20 each times two (cheap!), and easy to install while the entire brake system is being upgraded. Seems like it would also help during racing applications, where sustained high centrifical force could cause cause lower pressures to accumulate on one side or the rear brakes. But no one's suffered problems adding 2 psi residual pressure valves, have you? Please educate me.

It's a stock body with stock wheels. I want Halibrand's like R McCall has, so I'll be measuring soon too. What wheel offsets are you specifying, Jim?

NASCAR is using 6-piston calipers, but those guys don't use their brakes going round and round, just when they pit. So the bigger brakes must be mainly for hauling down the car from high speed on a short distance. Is this about right? In other words, why does NASCAR use 6 piston brakes?

I am concerned about two things. Somebody pulling in front of me when I'm driving in town. I will also occasionally be on the track coming down the front strightaway into the hair-pin turn. Those are the reasons for the brake project.

Any comments on experiences with the Wilwood Polymatrix brake pad compound compared to the tan semi-metallic brake pads will be appreciated also.

I guess there's a lot I don't know, but it's cool learning. Thanks.

I noticed you are interested in Halibrand wheels. A friend I work with is building a 33 coupe and has been trying to get them for about a year and a half. The company has gone under twice and their production runs are few and far between. Maybe this is just for certain sizes but I thought I would let you know anyway. Good luck with your project.

quote:

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Originally posted by veryfast italain:



NASCAR is using 6-piston calipers, but those guys don't use their brakes going round and round, just when they pit. So the bigger brakes must be mainly for hauling down the car from high speed on a short distance. Is this about right? In other words, why does NASCAR use 6 piston brakes?

.

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This is only true at tracks such as Daytona and Talladega.Other tracks like Martinsville,Bristol,Rockingham etc.... the brakes are used a great deal.It takes an amazing amount of brake to haul a 3400# car down from 130 mph to 50 twice a lap for 500 laps.
I doubt the teams use 6 piston calipers at Daytona and Talladega to save weight.


Pantera Turbo: The wheels he is talking about are Halibrand replicas made by Team III.
Later,
Ron

Jim,
Thank you very much for educating me and clarifying your earlier post.

Cliff

VFI,

Your use of the 2psi RPV's will be okay. In fact, Dennis Quella installs them in his systems using the Wilwood superlites. For basically the reasons you mentioned. Should cause no problems or issues.

Larry

quote:

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Originally posted by r mccall:


This is only true at tracks such as Daytona and Talladega.Other tracks like Martinsville,Bristol,Rockingham etc.... the brakes are used a great deal.It takes an amazing amount of brake to haul a 3400# car down from 130 mph to 50 twice a lap for 500 laps.
I doubt the teams use 6 piston calipers at Daytona and Talladega to save weight.


Pantera Turbo: The wheels he is talking about are Halibrand replicas made by Team III.
Later,
Ron

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Gotcha. I will have to let my friend know about these.

Blaine

I'm back!

Cliff - Fred Terry is doing a series of articles in the POCA newsletter on the various rear wheel bearing revisions.

VFI - Coz has posted Nate Weber's wheel measurements in the thread titled "Zodiac Wheels". I have not found the post that includes the pictures, yet. If you would like, I can e-mail you a copy of my Kodiak worksheets. They would be MS Word attachments. Just remember that I allowed an extra 1/4" of backspace because of my aftermarket rotors. E-mail me at: chendric@bellsouth.net

Also note that there variations between cars. Just use these measurments as a comparison guide. Measure your car!! I heard of one owner that had to order a pair of wheels that were 1/2" different in backspace because there was that much difference from one side of the car to the other.

Sorry about the delay in answering. We were gone to Florida for a week+. Wife and I are basically "computer illiterate old fartz" who do not have an ethernet card in their laptop and can not use the WiFi system in the condo.

Jim,
Thank you again for the info, I will try to get copy of the newsletter and study up on the wheel bearing revisions. I am currently in my 3rd year of a restoration of a 73 L model. This weekend I started replacing the rusted out rear top frame rails and plan on doing the rear bearings in the next few months. Just like to study up and be very familar with all options and procedures before I start. Thank you again.
Cliff

Earlier this evening I tried the "Find" function on this BB just to see what would come up. I got 38 matches on "Rear Wheel Bearings". Between that and Fred Terry's articles, you should be able to learn more than you really want to know about wheel bearings.