intake questions

First, the rpm ratings are not exact. Second, what they're really talking about is street driving vs drag-racing or open-track work. An open-plenum intake paired with a 750 cfm carb will be fine if your engine spends most of its time above 4500 rpms. If you only occasionally go fast but spend most of your time at legal speeds in traffic, you and your engine will both be more comfortable with a "street" intake; that is, a dual plane. This's why there are a number of open plenum intakes for sale cheap but not many dual-plane Edelbrock Performers, IMHO one of the best street (and light competition) intakes available for a 351C. A Performer runs out of breath around 5500. If your engine is fully built-up with a fairly radical cam & a big carb etc and you enjoy running it above 6000 for long periods with no regard for tickets or gas mileage, an open plenum type intake is for you.

> Okay, this may sound kind of dumb, but when you look at ratings for intake
> manifolds they list an rpm range. For example the edelbrock performer lists
> the range from idle to 5,500 whereas the torker 351's range is 3000 to 7000
> rpm. Is this the rpm range they are designed to run best at?

Generally, that's the case but there is no standardized testing
and different intakes rated in the same RPM range can perform
quite differently.

> Any recommendations between the two or other manifolds?

I don't care much for either intake in modified Pantera applications.
The Performer is a copy of the earlier Edelbrock F-351 which is itself
basically a Ford dual plane intake with smaller ports. The smaller
ports are meant to increase low end torque and throttle response,
particularly in heavy vehicles with automatic transmissions, stock stall
speed convertors, and tall gears. The Performer and Offy Dual-Port are
good truck and big sedan intakes. The best things about the Performer
is that it is aluminum and low profile (practically the same height as
the stock Ford intake). If you think your Pantera has poor low end
performance you may want to consider a Performer, otherwise there are
better intakes. For most street performance Panteras, the Blue Thunder
high rise dual plane is an excellent intake. They also have a version
without cant angle at the carb pad for Panteras. Marino at Panteras
East stocks them as does PPC in Colorado. Marino has a web page at:

http://www.mapenterprises.net/pe/1024x768/main.htm

but I don't think PPC is online.

The Torker is an open plenum single plane design meant for mid and high
RPM performance but it's just not that good an intake. The Blue Thunder
will usually beat it across the rev range. For an engine that needs an
open plenum intake, I favor the drag racer's favorite Holley Strip
Dominator. There are also some single plane race intakes from Australia
and the similar Ford Motorsport intakes for high port heads can be
used. If you choose an open plenum intake, you may want to consider a
carb with annular boosters. These boosters are more sensitive to low
vacuum conditions and will improve driveablity. Likewise an MSD multi
strike ignition will help cold start and low RPM performance with an
open plenum.

The main problem with the Blue Thunder and Holley Strip Dominator is
that they are relatively tall and may not fit under a stock engine
screen. Here are some A and B measurements of 351C intakes I've
measured:

Edelbrock F-351 & Performer 2V/4V 3 1/2 4 3/8
Weiand Xcelerator 2V 4 3/16 5 1/8
Holley Strip Dominator 4 5/16 5 3/8
Blue Thunder 4 7/16 5 3/8
Ford aluminum 4V 3 1/4 4 3/8
Offenhauser 360 4V 3 1/2 4 1/2
Weiand tunnel Ram 9 1/16 9 3/8
base only 6 1/4 6 1/4
top only 2 3/4 3 1/8
Motorsport A351 (Roush) 6 3/4 6 3/4
A331 (Edelbrock version, not Roush) 4 3/8 5 5/16

> If your engine is fully built-up with a fairly radical cam & a big carb
> etc and you enjoy running it above 6000 for long periods with no regard
> for tickets or gas mileage, an open plenum type intake is for you.

Not all single planes are created equal. One with a moderate sized
plenum and runners will work very well on the street. On my Aussie
headed motor I run a Weiand Xcelerator 2V single plane and it pulls
5th gear from just off idle, is very smooth in it's power delivery
and gets 20 MPG on the highway with a 735 CFM Holley. Makes a bunch
more power than Edelbrock Performer 2V with no driveability issues.
A friend did a back-to-back intake manifold between the Edelbrock
Performer 2V and the Weiand Xcelerator 2V on his street Mustang which
had a mild 351C with open chamber 2V heads. With an Edelbrock Performer
2V, it ran 14.80s shifting at 5500 rpm. Switching to the Weiand
Xcelerator 2V, with no other changes, put the car into the 13.20's.
That's a huge difference and shows the Performer was really choking
the engine. I don't care much for the Weiand Xcelerator 4V version
of that intake though. It's a worse dog than a Torker on a 4V headed
Cleveland. I've not tried it but I'd be willing to wager the Xcelerator
2V would work better on a 4V than either the Performer 4V or Weiand
Xcelerator 4V.

Speaking of 2V intakes, there's a new high rise, air gap dual plane
available from Australia (Torque Power Manifolds). See:

http://www.users.pipeline.com.au/tpm/f-dual.htm

Note that the price on the website is in Australian dollars. It's about
$550 in U.S. currency.

Dan Jones

This may be a personal opinion and no answer on the Q. But I have newer get any Torker to run very good on a 351C. Not even at high rpm.
There are other by fare better modern single plane manifolds. I rather use the old dual plane for the 351C over the torker even if going fast.
Goran Malmberg

Funny, looks like we have another guy that is not to impressed over the Torker. The first one I seen in a loooong time. Thought I was alone with that opinion.
Goran Malmberg

> Funny, looks like we have another guy that is not to impressed over the
> Torker. The first one I seen in a loooong time. Thought I was alone with
> that opinion.

Not at all. None of the serious drag racers that I know use a Torker.
The Holley Strip Dominator works quite a bit better. Even used, the
Strip Dominator commands a price of $400. If running port stuffers,
one of the Australian intakes or high port SVO intake might be worthwhile.
Of course what I really like is this:

http://www.bacomatic.org/irefi/irefi.html

One of those is going on my new engine...

Dan Jones

Yah Dan, and I'm making the last molds for the runner cores right now. Got that alloy engine together?

Kelly

[This message has been edited by Panterror (edited 03-24-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Panterror (edited 03-24-2004).]

No, I'm still waiting on the 4340 crankshaft. A local shop has a dozen on back order with 10 already spoken for. I've been calling around but everyone seems to be in the same boat. The worst part is I can't order pistons until I have the rods and crank in hand.

Dan Jones

Goran.
Just read your and other posts re. the poor preformance of the Torker intake, and to pose a interesting point: - Prior to going to the Weber,180 degree exhaust route I was running a Torker for a long while and noticed NONE of the characteristics you guys speak of. On the street & track.
Could it be that due to the high level above sea here in Johannesburg, (we are over 6000ft above sea here,)- that these disavantages you speak of are perhaps cancelled out? Several Pantera guys here run them as well and feel the same. What do u think ? How about input from u Cat-Heads living up in the mountains, - maybe Colorado.
I was also told that the split-duration cams used u hear of so often show no advantage up here at level, compared to no split duration ones and agin i have and are not using them now.(split,I mean). Is this also to do with thin air at high altitude. What do the pilots say ?
Hope u've enjoyed your summer driving. Talk to us in the open forum please, i love your posts. Hows that monster of yours doing ?
Its winter here (sunny skys, no rain, only have rain in summer,-yes 300 days of sun!- Petrol-Heads everywhere, but cold at night & early morn.)- Last weekend I was at the Annual Ferrari Day here at the Kyalami Race Track. - 200x Prancing Horses howling around the track all day,- from a '51 V12 Barcheta Roadster,thru Boxers, 275 GTB's, Daytona's, 4x F40's, one F50, lots of Dino 246's & Tesstarossa's,- WIMHO are the uglyest F's to me..WILD..and lots of the news ones which i personally am not much interested in.- I was having fun with my old 308 weaving in amongst all this glourious traffic on the track,- (yes we all go out together and mix it....)..shooting video with a small DV Cam Corder mounted low on the front of my bonnet, oops, hood. Was trying out a friend's new toy : a wide-angle 3-D adaptor on the front of the camera lens,(-no glasses 3-D mind u......
My Pantera new motor is in now but have only just installed the Accusump oiling system and the Dieist Fire Suppresion system and not driven it yet. DONT WANT NO MELT DOWN.
Cheers ALL, tai

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tai Krige:
Goran.
1
Just read your and other posts re. the poor preformance of the Torker intake. I was running a Torker for a long while and noticed NONE of the characteristics you guys speak of.
2
Could it be that due to the high level above sea here in Johannesburg, (we are over 6000ft above sea here,)- that these disavantages you speak of are perhaps cancelled out?
3
Several Pantera guys here run them as well and feel the same.
4
I was also told that the split-duration cams used u hear of so often show no advantage up here.
5
Hope u've enjoyed your summer driving.
6
Talk to us in the open forum please, i love your posts.
7
Hows that monster of yours doing ?
Cheers ALL, tai

---

1
I didnt study the "Torker phenomenon" to deepley. But even my son mede 1/2 sec better laptime with another intake than the torker.
It was 15 years since I had one.
2
We must remember that Torker is an OLD manifold. No wonder if there has been some development.
At higher levels we are dealing with less air density. This means less air mass weight ant less oxygen for burning. The relation to the engine should remain pretty much the same.
If we change the balance in air pressure intake vs exhaust, like using a turbo, then another cam timing is on our hands.
3
Dont get insulted now, but to make sure a comparsion is valid, we must perform a test
that surley measure what we are after.
4
I dont have the power to calculate this out,
so I must back off from a solid statement.
5
Absolutley. Its a bit rainy, but fair temperature for driving.
6
I think its a bunch of nice guys in the forum. Ill stay....
7
The engine runs great. The new clutch ended up with very low moment of inertia, making the car difficult to get out the garage.
Total flywheel disc , and pressure plate is 31 pound. Within 8" of diameter exept for the flywheel. Sevicing a quit big motor.
But fully warmed up it dosent stop to often.

But it pays of with good trottle responce!
I am NOT going bak to anything heavier.

Cheers
Goran Malmberg

I have to vote for the Blue Thunder as well.I 've used several intakes including a "Active" Austrailian single plane .I can definitely say that none were a match for the BT.