Just a couple questions about oil.

When I first bought my Pantera, a couple of PCNC members pointed out that it's pretty common for the ZF to sometimes grind when going into 1st or reverse. The cure is to first slide it into 2nd gear, then it'll drop right into first or reverse with no grinding, if I recall correctly.

OR, just push the clutch in, and wait a second for the trans to spin down.

It only crunches in 1sr or reverse when I go from neutral (clutch out) and I try to stick it into 1st or reverse too quickly.

Waiting a second for the trans to spin down works as well as selecting a higher gear first.


Just proper shifting procedure is all I need to observe.

Those are both fixes but I'm thinking that the shift mechanism in the Pantera itself is partially the cause of that.

It has a certain mass to it and therefore has an inertia to it.

Most transmission I know have a sensitivity to that kind of situation and the ZF has GOT TO BE one of the worst or more correctly most sensitive.

This new cable shifter that Chris made might be a fix for that? You should talk to them over there specifically if they noticed their unit helps with this situation? I suspect it does.

Me? I'm saving nickels and dimes from my newspaper route for one.

My Schwinn just blew another gear box and do you know how hard it is to find parts for them now? Gee-z-us!

quote:

t has a certain mass to it and therefore has an inertia to it.

Doug, could you expand your explanation of this for my benefit? I don't follow the relationship between the shift mechanism and the gear rotation. Thanks

Sure. I think it, the external shift mechanism, "leans"on the assembly, the internal gear cluster, just enough to keep the gears from truly being in neutral.

Whereas the cable shifter is enertialess enough to let the cluster find neutral on its own and stay there.



You can see that a little bit when you adjust the rod shifter, you do find neutral with it but when you tighten the lock nut, just those .004" or so it changes, takes it slightly out of neutral. Result, as soon as you touch the lever you grind. It makes the neutral gate very narrow as a result. I think the transmission itself has a wider neutral gate than it appears because of the nature of the original shift mechanism?

Remember. The closest tolerance bolts are going to have a .003 to .004 " clearance, i.e., the actual dimension being .003 to .004 smaller than the number they are meant to be. That puts play in there of .003 to .004", pushing or pulling the adjustment out that much in the neutral gate.



I can definitively tell you from attempting to adjust the throttle rods on a multiple carb setup like Webers, you actually need to attempt to calculate that play, over compensate, then tighten the jamb nuts. You may have to play with that for a while before you get them centered where you want to.



Even adjusting the valve clearances on solid lifter camshafts show this as well. You find zero clearance between the push rod and rocker arm by tightening the nut until you can not turn the push rod with your fingers. The threads on the studs are fine thread which makes the change closer than coarse threads. Often when you find zero clearance then tighten the nut you have to back off to get it right. It is usually in the .0010 to .0015 inches that it changes. That's a lot.



I find the Pantera shift mechanism similar with similar difficulties.

The cable shifter I suspect will either fix that or reduce it enough to eliminate grinding due to being a hair out of true neutral?



You should be able to tell that instantly in Chris'car with the shifter. With the engine idling and moving the lever left and right through the neutral gate WITHOUT touching the clutch? That will tell you right there.

I think the shift rod mechanism in the Pantera IS a big part of this issue with the ZF in the car, i.e., it's the shifter mechanism more so than the ZF.



Some are going to say I am completely wrong and out of line on this but I don't think so. I suspect that I am right on this but can't prove it. Not yet anyway?



The cable shifter is on my wish list. I think it will fix a LOT of what is wrong with the ZF and that is the shift linkage.

It will go a long way to making it a much better car overall, easier and more fun to drive with less maintenance on the ZF necessary.

ANY manual transmission and shift mechanism should be precise enough to be able to move the lever back and forth through the neutral gate without hearing the gears without holding in the clutch.


Only time will tell on that though.


That's what I meant by that comment. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.